Archbishop Tobin: Pope Francis is “disruptive”

Archbishop Tobin had some provocative things to say about the U.S. church and Pope Francis in his speech to the annual assembly of the College Theology Society. Tobin expressed concern over the polarized nature of American politics and the negative impact it has had on the Church in the United States. NCR reports:

Indianapolis Archbishop Joseph Tobin also warned against a trend in the U.S. church to “oversimplify what are really complicated questions in the hope of discovering who to blame.”

“At the present moment, this behavior helps to contribute to the balkanization of American Catholics into so-called right wing and left wing, or progressive and traditionalist, factions, who point fingers at each other.”

Tobin also spoke about Pope Francis:

“What I’ve seen is how disruptive Pope Francis has been within the hierarchy of the United States,” said Tobin. “I was talking to a couple of brother bishops a while back and they were saying that bishops and priests were very discouraged by Pope Francis because he was challenging them.”

“I think there was a particular image, perhaps, of what it means to be a pastoral leader in this country, and Francis is disturbing it,” he continued. “I think there is some resistance to a different way of doing the Gospel mission of the church.”

The archbishop paused before continuing with a smile: “So, pray for Francis’ health.”

Tobin is not the first to note that some in the hierarchy are uncomfortable with Pope Francis’ leadership style. John Thavis in an article last month reported that many officials in the Roman Curia are “worried about the doctrinal and pastoral implications of the pope’s supposed remarks.” Vatican officials are also “concerned that the Vatican is losing control over papal communication.”

I am glad that the bishops feel “challenged” and that the Vatican is losing some control. Many bishops and church officials have been disconnected from the faithful and their pastoral needs for far too long. Pope Francis is calling them to reengage the world and build bridges instead of walls.

 

 

Nathan Chase

Nathan P. Chase is Assistant Professor of Liturgical and Sacramental Theology at Aquinas Institute of Theology in St. Louis, MO. He has contributed a number of articles to the field of liturgical studies, including pieces on liturgy in the early Church, initiation, the Eucharist, inculturation, and the Western Non-Roman Rites, in particular the Hispano-Mozarabic tradition. His first book The Homiliae Toletanae and the Theology of Lent and Easter was published in 2020. His second monograph, published in 2023, is titled The Anaphoral Tradition in the ‘Barcelona Papyrus.’

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26 responses to “Archbishop Tobin: Pope Francis is “disruptive””

  1. Peter Kwasniewski

    You’ve got to be kidding — “the Vatican is losing some control”? We have not seen so rigidly monarchical an exercise of the papacy since Pius XII, and perhaps Leo XIII.

    Reply
    1. Bill deHaas

      @Peter Kwasniewski – comment #1:
      And you know this how?

      Reply
      1. Charles Day

        @Bill deHaas – comment #3:
        Not Peter but he used the word monarchical which makes me think that he distinguishes between the Pope “Vatican” and the Curia “Vatican”. It looks the Curia is losing a little control, and it’s being lost to the Pope, or more accurately, to the Cardinals who elected him. Peter could be right about that, but he says it like it’s a bad thing. I would disagree with that.

      2. Fritz Bauerschmidt

        @Charles Day – comment #4:
        Also not Peter, but I suspect he’s referring at least in part to Francis’s insouciance with regard to certain traditions and the rather strong will he displays about things like what he’ll wear, where he’ll live, what he rides in, whom he calls, whose feet he washes, etc.

        Of course, I don’t mind him showing a bit of backbone in these areas because I tend to agree with him. But, if I were to disagree with him, I suppose I would wish that he were less “monarchical” in his style.

  2. Bill Hobbs

    If bishops are feeling disturbed, then indeed I have reason to be encouraged…

    Reply
  3. Jim Blue

    Met him recently at a Canon Law conference and found him to be quite a gentleman and a model of much of what a modern bishop should be.

    Returning the favor, I would pray that Bishop Tobin has a very long life as well!

    Reply
  4. Mike Burns

    Did Archbishop Tobin take a vow or pledge of obedience to the Pope and his successors? His public criticism of Pope Francis is not good for the unity of the Magisterium.So, pray for Francis’s health? Is that code language for its time for a poison ice cube in the Pope’s drink?

    Reply
  5. Bill deHaas

    Charles & Deacon – my two cents but think that your explanation is a stretch.
    Since Tobin specifically talked about those who paint a picture in order to point fingers; well, here is an example (all five parts):

    http://www.catholica.com.au/gc4/dt/001_dt_030614.php

    In direct response to Francis, he proudly waved this: “I am a Self-Absorbed Promethean Neopelagian”

    Not sure that I would agree that this type of participation in public discussion allows for other views so much as it is a self-proclaimed *cottage industry* disconnected from the gospels.

    OTOH, this last quote may just be the right approach:

    “A consequence for Zuhlsdorf is that, precisely because he is making constant carping, subversive and erosive comments about Pope Francis, many of his most loyal followers are distancing themselves from him and, disastrously for him, from the Donate button! Chances are that eventually he will implode upon himself under the sheer weight of his own hubris, dissemblance and greed.”

    Reply
    1. Fritz Bauerschmidt

      Here’s another example..

      Reply
      1. Bill deHaas

        @Fritz Bauerschmidt – comment #9:
        Geez, or your example of my example…does become ridiculous…so, why does PTB post in the first place a piece whose theme is polarization and then, if you provide an example, you are polarizing.

  6. Richard Malcolm

    One of the things that strikes me the more I read about the Catholic Church in America is its long trajectory toward restless assimilation to American society. At first: simply to fight back against Know-Nothingism, to show that Catholics could be good patriotic Americans; later, to really have a seat at the table; and from the mid-20th century, even keen to adopt insights and practices from Protestantism as practiced in the U.S..

    While refraining from any specific criticisms of any aspects of that trajectory, I can’t help but feel that the “balkanization” of the Church in America reflects the success of that trajectory, because in this respect, the Church largely reflects now the ideological and cultural balkanization of American society at large. It’s obvious not just in how Catholics vote (split down the middle, as Pew shows), but how we live and think as well.

    Obviously there are some specific issues and some uniquely Catholic discourse underway that goes beyond and intensifies these battles. But in large part, I think this congruence, and steady efforts to achieve it, has a good deal of explanatory power.

    One irony here is the use of the term “balkanization” by Archbp. Tobin. It’s a term usually associated with ethnic and sectarian fragmentation and struggle. Yet if there was ever a Church more segmented by ethnicity, it was the 19th and early 20th century American Church, complete with the common sight of ethnic parishes located only a block from each other in major cities, notwithstanding a remarkable theological, liturgical, moral and even political harmony between them. That ethnic balkanization is pretty much long dead (notwithstanding the growth of new immigrant communities), but it’s been replaced by “balkanization” along almost all other lines now.

    Reply
    1. Bill deHaas

      @Richard Malcolm – comment #10:
      One of the most interesting *balkanizations* (altho not specifically named by Tobin) has been the last 20 years of US bishops who have articulated, announced, and aligned with evangelical Christianity in the cultural wars. Various books have studied this trend……am always amused when I read certain episcopal statements – they remind me exactly of what was once condemned when preached by our local Baptist or church of Christ ministers.

      Link to another Bishop Tobin: http://www.faithstreet.com/onfaith/2013/08/16/catholic-bishop-stumps-for-the-republican-party-why/10767

      Reply
      1. Jeffrey Pinyan

        @Bill deHaas – comment #13:
        Re: the faithstreet.com link, is the issue Bishop Tobin publicly declaring himself a Republican, or publicly declaring his political affiliation? I’m sure plenty of Catholic Democrats would be able to say “the two of these [my faith and my political affiliation] are related, and can be related very comfortably.” I daresay many Catholic Democrats (like Catholic Republicans) feel that their Catholic faith compels them to be a Democrat (or a Republican).

      2. Rita Ferrone Avatar
        Rita Ferrone

        @Jeffrey Pinyan – comment #15:
        FYI, it’s a different Tobin.

      3. Rita Ferrone Avatar
        Rita Ferrone

        @Bill deHaas – comment #13:
        Oops, a different bishop.

        Tobin in Providence is not this one.

        This post is about Archbishop Tobin in Indianapolis, the Redemptorist, not Bishop Tobin of Providence.

        (I don’t know if they are blood relatives, but it’s a different guy anyway.)

      4. Bill deHaas

        @Rita Ferrone – comment #16:
        See what I said – *…another Tobin*

        JP – read the linked article carefully – it answers your question. You say: “…..issue Bishop Tobin publicly declaring himself a Republican, or publicly declaring his political affiliation?” What’s the difference? Can you find any current US bishops who have made the same type of public proclamations only highlighting that they are Democrats?

      5. Rita Ferrone Avatar
        Rita Ferrone

        @Bill deHaas – comment #19:
        Sorry, Bill, I didn’t understand (thought you meant another example from Tobin), but now I see what you meant.

        If we are looking for examples of polarizing bishops, sadly, there are many. In the US, Bishop Jenky, Bishop Morlino (who stepped down), Archbishop Myers, and more. In Germany, Bishop Tebartz van-Elst, in Austria, Bishop-elect Wagner (whose appointment was withdrawn), and Cardinal Groer, who was an abuser in addition to being divisive. The list is long, and none were appointed by Francis.

      6. Jordan Zarembo

        @Bill deHaas – comment #13:

        Bill: One of the most interesting *balkanizations* (altho not specifically named by Tobin) has been the last 20 years of US bishops who have articulated, announced, and aligned with evangelical Christianity in the cultural wars.

        +1 Bill!

        Another issued tied into some bishops’ social conservative politics is Pope Francis’s unwillingness to take an amerocentric view of the Church. Yes, the American Church is influential because of the United States’s global power and also the financial support of American Catholics. Still, the fact that Pope Francis has other priorities that do not include placing the American bishops front and center must be infuriating for some bishops. Pope Francis’s milder flavor of liberation theology is also on the road to a head-on collision with American conservative politics.

        I say, right on Pope Francis! High time that a pope focuses on the welfare of developing and war-torn nations than court Americans for the USD.

      7. Bill deHaas

        @Jordan Zarembo – comment #18:
        Agree – this is especially highlighted when his *economic language* is attacked and his *capitalism comments* are dismissed because he only has experience in Argentina.
        As if capitalism only exists in the US; as if the poor don’t exist in Argentina, etc., etc. Really does make some folks such as Weigel look ridiculous.

  7. Rita Ferrone Avatar
    Rita Ferrone

    A problem with Bishop Tobin’s remarks is that the meaning of his last sentence “So, pray for Francis’ health” can be read in two ways.

    If you assume he finds Francis’ leadership bracing and gospel-driven, and just what the Church needs despite the difficulty some are having in adjusting to it, his words could mean “pray that he will remain in good health.”

    If you assume that he too finds Francis disruptive, and agrees with those who are discouraged and disturbed, the inference is that one should pray for the grace of an early death to remove the disruption and restore the peace of the bishops and priests. This, said with a smile, it nevertheless a nasty thought indeed.

    He should know better than to make a remark like that without first making clear which side he’s on.

    As it is, by not stating his own position, it comes off as a little too sly. Although he decries the existence of opposing camps, he seems not to take their existence seriously. It is rather naive to think that his final remark would be “self interpreting.” It will be interpreted according to who hears, and what they think the speaker is actually trying to say.

    Reply
  8. Norman Borelli

    Bishops in this country need to ask themselves: On whose watch has the “balkinization” of the church in America occurred?

    Reply
  9. Fritz Bauerschmidt

    Rita Ferrone : Bishop Morlino (who stepped down)

    Do you mean Bishop Martino of Scranton, or has Morlino stepped down in recent days?

    Reply
    1. Rita Ferrone Avatar
      Rita Ferrone

      @Fritz Bauerschmidt – comment #22:
      Yes, you are right; I meant Martino. Sorry for the error! Another divisive bishop, to be sure.

      Reply
      1. Fritz Bauerschmidt

        @Rita Ferrone – comment #23:
        You got my hopes up for a second.

  10. john Robert Francis

    Archbishop Joseph Tobin, CSSR, was the general superior of the Redemptorists for twelve years. He was highly regarded by his community and by many superiors general in Rome, both of women’s and men’s congregations. Soon after his second term ended, he was named in 2010 archbishop secretary of the Congregation for Institutes of Consecrated Life and Societies of Apostolic Life. Most religious communities were stunned, but delighted. However, after just two years in that post, he was got out of Rome by being named in October 2012 archbishop of Indianapolis. Too bad for the religious, but great for Indianapolis.

    It is said he was “promoted” because he was too open. For instance, he was clearly in favor of bringing an end to the CDF’s negative approach towards the LCWR.

    As for his talk to the College Theology Society, I suspect “you had to be there.” But I’ll bet my last dollar that he is a “Francis bishop.” He was being very candid in saying that some US bishops are not or are unsure. I was hoping that he would be named archbishop of Chicago. That was a long shot that just got longer. His remark on Pope Francis’s health = Viva il Papa! I don’t doubt that his audience got that.

    Reply
  11. fr Gerald Ragis

    I’ve re-read some of these commentaries several occasions now, esp +John Francis Robert. I like what he writes. I had wondered – still do – why Bp Tobin’s “stuff” was even used. especially if it really needed to be taken in context. [That’s the kind of trick secular press and others use too often! Could we call that “oblique calumny”?

    Seems to me if I find myself “disrupted” by someone or something I really owe it to myself to check out WHY? I think “disruptions” help us get out of unseen ruts. . which can be so easy to lie in and hide!

    Was it Tobin who actually said/wrote that the US bishops and priests are unhappy with Pope Francis because he is challenging their lifestyle. . .their comfortable rut? Good.
    Maybe their reaction is healthy and needed to make them really feel they are “out of synch” with the rest of the Church, out of “sentire cum ecclesia”. . ..which I believe is a dangerous symptom. . .why? It tells us we are OUT of IT. . . which is a progressive procession to. . .what? infidelity to our commitments? ‘on the way to schism’?
    Or am I being too pointed? Well, I shall have to examine that too.

    As for comments about praying for the pope’s health, , well and good. Francis appears to be a pretty savvy gent.
    I think he has, maybe unwittingly, taken care of the danger of “a tainted ice cube” or pasta sauce: he lives in a Vatican hotel. He takes his meals at the common table or does he also have a microwave in his apartment? T’would be rather obvious if all the residents feel ill of food poisoning after the same meal. WoW! that would would get the gentry scurrying. ho ho ho

    Well enough of this. Viva la ‘disruptiveness’ ! Fifty years ago it went by the name aggiornimento . . . bene, bene, bene.

    Cordially,
    Gerald

    Reply

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