Non solum: Sitting for choral Kyrie and Gloria

Our parish celebrates a solemn Latin Mass every Sunday, Missal of Paul VI, with the support of professional musicians. The music itself ranges from modern composers to polyphony and chant; the standard of music is very high. The Kyrie is always sung in Greek, the Gloria in Latin.

The celebrant, servers and congregation stand at the start of the Kyrie, then sit while the choir completes it. Everyone then rises as the celebrant sings Gloria in excelsis Deo, and then everyone sits while the choir completes the Gloria.

What do people think about sitting for the Kyrie and Gloria,when these are sung by the choir? Please assume, as you reflect on this, that our choices of music for the Kyrie and Gloria are not going to change, nor is the practice of having the choir rather than the congregation sing these.

In a similar situation (e.g. with the Kyrie and Gloria from the Mozart Missa Brevis K 275) would your congregation sit or stand?

I should add that the congregation does sing many responses during the Mass, including the Creed in Latin, a Latin Marian anthem during the universal prayer, as well as an entrance hymn in English, something like “O Worship the King” or “O Praise Ye the Lord.”

 

Jonathan Day

I am a writer and consultant. My church home is the Jesuit Church of the Immaculate Conception (Farm Street Church) in central London, where I serve at the altar and help with adult education at the Mount Street Jesuit Centre. I recently became the chair of Council at Newman University, a small Catholic university in Birmingham. I write here in a purely personal capacity.

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Comments

36 responses to “Non solum: Sitting for choral Kyrie and Gloria”

  1. Elisabeth Ahn

    About sitting or not for the Kyrie and Gloria, I have no strong feelings either way.

    Not being invited (allowed?) to sing either one, on the other hand, yeah, I would have a very strong feeling about that.

    May I ask what is the rationale behind these choices? In particular, is the latter (i.e., having only the choir sing the Kyrie and Gloria) mainly to maintain “the high standard of music”?

    Reply
    1. Anthony Ruff, OSB Avatar
      Anthony Ruff, OSB

      @Elisabeth Ahn – comment #1:
      Before we get off on a side question – the post is about whether to sit or not when in fact a choral Kyrie or Gloria are done – it’s worth noting that the General Instruction of the Roman Missal provides for the choir alone singing the Gloria. This particular hymn is not – how to put this? – super integral to the opening rites. The US bishops’ document Sing to the Lord allows for the same, of course, following the GIRM, but recommends that the congregation sing one piece somewhere in the opening rites.

      But please – let’s not highjack this thread into that side question. Jonathan’s question is about whether to sit or not in places where the choir alone sings theses pieces.

      awr

      Reply
      1. Elisabeth Ahn

        @Anthony Ruff, OSB – comment #3:

        Sorry, Father, that wasn’t my intention.

        To avoid further thread-highjacking, I shall also refrain from responding to the sighs of Deacon Don Donaldson (@comment #2), and move on.

        So, carry on.

      2. Bill deHaas

        @Elisabeth Ahn – comment #4:
        Ms. Ahn – you appear to be on a roll this Lent. Must you *dismiss* folks every time they point out something in your comments….and the *veiled* ad hominems grow tiring.
        But then, as you say: “So please, spare me your lectures and condescending tone. Just because I don’t share your particular view of All Things Catholic and, therefore, that I’m in dire need of some Real World education.”

      3. Elisabeth Ahn

        @Bill deHaas – comment #5:

        “Ms. Ahn – you appear to be on a roll this Lent.”

        I had the same thought.

        Participating in this blog is no longer fun, or spiritually nourishing. Following Mr. Jordan’s lead, time to take a step away from the place.

        Father Anthony, please feel free to delete this post and my earlier ones. Thanks, and I apologize again for derailing the thread.

  2. Deacon Don Donaldson

    Elisabeth Ahn :Not being invited (allowed?) to sing either one, on the other hand, yeah, I would have a very strong feeling about that.

    I am amazed at how many in our congregation openly express their preference for both extremes: a “performance Mass” or a “silent Mass.” They prefer it because it returns the Mass to “my time,” “time for my personal prayers,” or “my devotional time.” My experience at either of these ends has been anything but positive.

    On the other hand, having just experienced several School Masses on Ash Wednesday in which it seemed more important to parade myriads of readers to the Ambo and Lectern to “increase participation” rather than have all the students say “And with your spirit” or any other form of cognisance, I am left shaking my head. Maybe we should have simply played recordings or videos rather than go through the motions.

    Again, having watch (and listen to) Schubert’s German Mass setting crammed into a service … one has to ask why? (At least they could have used Lutheran Latin so the text and the music worked together. I digress.)

    Perhaps we need to applaud after each part of the Ordinary … it seems appropriate …

    Sigh …

    Reply
  3. Earle Luscombe

    First of all, I think this thread is soon to be hijacked. Now as to the topic. Personally, I prefer to stand. During the Kyrie, I am a penitent standing before the Lord asking for his mercy. During the Gloria, I am standing before God and His angels as they sing his praises.

    As a practical matter, however, there are people who for whatever reason physically cannot stand for any length of time, and these people should be invited by an announcement in the bulletin to sit. I do believe that the celebrant and other ministers at the altar should stand.

    Reply
  4. Jeffrey Pinyan

    I must admit that among the things I find distracting in the older form of Mass, the constant change of posture within a single liturgical act (e.g. the Gloria) ranks very high. That is partly due to the duplication of elements, where the priest is praying the Gloria silently while the choir sings it aloud, I guess.

    So standing up for the beginning of the Kyrie or Gloria, and then sitting for the rest of it, and then standing when it’s over, seems discordant to me. I think I’d rather just stand for the whole thing or sit for the whole thing. Also, sitting while the choir sings may give the liturgical act more of a “performance” feeling than a “liturgical action” feeling, but that’s just my opinion.

    (I don’t have the same opinion about sitting for the readings, because I don’t associate a person reading Scripture to a seated assembly with “performance”. I am inclined to associate a choir singing a hymn to a seated assembly with “performance”. That’s the bias I’m bringing to the issue.)

    Reply
  5. Jeffrey Pinyan

    Correction to my comment #7 — I did not mean to say that the choir is singing a hymn TO a seated assembly. I meant to say that the choir is singing a hymn in the presence of the seated assembly.

    Reply
  6. Alan Johnson

    The traditional christian postures are to stand when praying and to sit when listening. So the people present at such a performance should sit.

    Reply
  7. Sean Keeler

    Some classical arrangements of the Kyrie and Gloria can run 10 minutes each, which for many people is an uncomfortable and/or unrealistic period of time to stand. [Heck – you can hear an audible sigh at times when Father reads a paragraph in brackets in the Gospel!] Let’s be real. Sitting is fine,

    And I believe that rather than “performance” or singing “at”, “to”, or “in the presence of”, the choir is singing “on behalf of” the assembly because of the complexity of the music. (But I’ve never seen the ushers sent out to silence those who have the audacity to join in!) 🙂

    Reply
  8. Jack Rakosky

    Well I am very influenced by the Eastern practice which sees “standing” as the default option for prayer with sitting for readings and homilies, and kneeling for penitential seasons. One stands for prayers even if these are mainly sung by the priest and/or choir.

    So I would stand for the Kyrie and Gloria sung by a choir; they are simply continuing the opening prayers of the liturgy much as when we stand during the Oration by the presider. It also provides a nice contrast with the readings which will follow. I agree with the idea that we should not do a lot of changes of posture which was well satirized in another post.

    However I could see kneeling during a penitential season when a Kyrie is sung by the choir. Again the fundamental attitude is kneeling in prayer not listening.

    On the broader question (and one cannot really separate things from broader questions) I am very willing to have choirs do their own thing without the people provided that the people have a lot of singing during the Mass.

    The basic question about the choir singing the Kyrie, Gloria, Creed, Sanctus, Lord’s Prayer Agnus Dei is that these are easily items that can be sung to tunes that every knows.

    When the people are asked to sing variable opening hymn, preparation hymn, communion hymn and recession hymn which they know poorly, the result is usually that the choir actually sings them accompanied by a few members of the congregation.

    The people not the choir should be making these decisions. We have some people who like a silent Mass or a sung Mass by a choir, or a Latin Mass. If there are sufficient numbers of them, e.g. 10% of the congregation wanting a choir Mass, then we should have them 10% of the time with sufficient notice so that people who don’t want that type of Mass can go elsewhere (or not at all).

    Reply
  9. Todd Flowerday

    Sit for it all. It makes no sense for the assembly to stand unless they are actively praising God. Standing is a posture for people who are praying vocally.

    For the record, I agree with Anthony about the Gloria not being super-integral to the introductory rites. A choral performance of the piece might be better placed after the reception of Communion. Others have made this suggestion before. Then just omit the piece and move right from the Kyrie to the Opening Collect.

    Reply
    1. Jeffrey Pinyan

      @Todd Flowerday – comment #13:
      It makes no sense for the assembly to stand unless they are actively praising God. Standing is a posture for people who are praying vocally.

      Would you recommend sitting as the posture for the congregation during the Eucharistic Prayer, then (with the exception of our responses / acclamations)?

      Reply
      1. Todd Flowerday

        @Jeffrey Pinyan – comment #17:
        I considered that too. But I think not. The Eucharistic Prayer is a single unit, inclusive of dialogues and acclamations. It’s not exclusively a priestly act. Standing is appropriate there, but I don’t get torqued off by kneeling. The Eucharistic Prayer is a whole level or two higher in importance than the Gloria. But likewise, I wouldn’t get upset about people standing for a four-to-thirty minutes Gloria.

        At the risk of following Elizabeth down a rabbit hole, count me a skeptic on the need or advisability of assigning what is essentially a priestly role to the choir (praying on behalf of the assembly) on a rather regular basis. In an alternate universe, that would get some negative attention from Redemptionis Sacramentum.

    2. Alexander Larkin

      @Todd Flowerday – comment #13:
      I find it unfair to assume that because I am not singing I am “not actively praising God.” On occasion, I will refrain from joining the singing to pray over the text of the hymn. Prayer cannot be orchestrated.

      Reply
      1. Todd Flowerday

        @Alexander Larkin – comment #31:
        Prayer cannot be orchestrated or demanded. But it should also not be usurped. The Vatican II definition of active participation is on SC 30, not some reform2 ideological concoction.

        “(S)ome of the things offered here are, how shall I say, precious.”

        True, to a degree. I want to be open to the input of excellent, thoughtful, and service-oriented choirmasters. But I think we’ve almost left behind considerations of choral music usurping what are ordinarily people’s parts. Literally.

        Sitting is a receptive position, and by the reform2 definition, reception alone is acceptable. If I went to Mass on the road and the choir started a Gloria without assembly participation (dialogue, at least, would be great), I would sit and nudge my wife (who isn’t capable of standing for long periods of time) join me.

      2. Jared Ostermann

        @Todd Flowerday – comment #34:
        Todd,

        I’m not sure prayer can ever be usurped – even with someone holding a gun to my head and forbidding prayer I am still free to pray, either externally (which might lead to martyrdom in that case!) or internally. And along the same lines, it is not a reform2 concoction that participation does not always involve physical, external activity – the Church has had something to say on that point in official documents. Nor have I ever encountered this reform2 definition you speak of, that reception alone is acceptable. If anything, those who argue for solo choral repertoire (whether they consider themselves in the reform2 “camp” or not) will not emphasize mere receptivity, but the fact that the faithful can unite themselves fully, consciously, and actively on an internal level, with what is being sung. Standing during a choral Kyrie helps to make this clearer. So I would say, given that proponents of choral Ordinaries do NOT hold up “mere receptivity” as acceptable, it would behoove them to encourage a posture more clearly in line with active interior participation. Actually, the more trendy current language of the choir ‘ministering to the congregation through music’ seems to veer closer to mere receptivity on on the congregation’s part.

        As to the rest of your post, I do agree this is largely a moot point. Those rare parishes with regular choral Ordinaries (whether a St. Agnes in the Twin Cities, or Westminster Cathedral, or Jonathan Day’s parish) have invested an incredible amount of time and resources in maintaining the musical tradition. It is safe to assume that those who regularly attend these rare liturgies are well-formed and informed, and do not consider their prayer usurped. If they don’t pray well in that liturgical context, they would no doubt attend one of the many Masses (even at these rare churches) that do not include a choral Ordinary.

  10. Jared Ostermann

    My experience studying in Vienna (where several orchestral Masses will be sung at various churches on any given weekend) was sitting during the Kyrie, Gloria, and Creed. Even in Vienna, where it worked very smoothly (everyone knew what to do, with no prompting), it always seemed odd to me. Especially standing after the Kyrie, having the priest intone the Gloria, and then sitting right back down – and then standing up again for the 10-second collect, then sitting again.

    I would prefer to stand throughout. This also highlights the fact that Kyrie and Gloria sung by the choir are (or should be) a sung prayer on behalf of the people, rather than a performance. When properly understood, of course.

    Reply
    1. Anthony Ruff, OSB Avatar
      Anthony Ruff, OSB

      @Jared Ostermann – comment #14:
      I’m with Jared. Since the choir is standing, everyone else should be able to stand also. (Of course if some need to sit for personal reasons it’s fine.) We’re all one choir, whether singing the polyphony or uniting ourselves with the singers by active listening to it.
      awr

      Reply
      1. Matthew Morelli

        @Anthony Ruff, OSB – comment #15:

        Though I am a proponent of the Reform of the Reform ethos concerning many aspects of liturgy, I think this is one of the places where it demonstrably breaks down — and thus I too agree with you and Jared.

        The only reason that sitting for the Gloria ‘works’ in the EF is because the priest and other ministers are praying the Prayers at the Foot of the Altar, the Introit, and the Kyrie as the sung Introit leads to the sung Kyrie of the choir and people and that the priest (and Deacon and Subdeacon in a Solemn High Mass) recite the Gloria in its entirety before sitting down — which is a practical measure above all else.

        If my memory serves me right, it would also be appropriate for the priest and other ministers in the EF Solemn High Mass to remain standing at the altar as the choir and people finish, before the recitation of the Epistle — but what is appropriate in the EF seems necessary in the OF, since the choir’s singing of the Kyrie and/or Gloria are the first and only time they are recited at the Mass.

  11. Doug O'Neill

    At the Cathedral of the Madeleine in Salt Lake City, the choir regularly sings the Gloria, and the people remain standing. I agree with Jared and Anthony – the standing posture says that the people remain actively engaged. Frankly, I think most people attending that Mass are more than happy to let 30 grade-school children joyfully sing profoundly beautiful music on their behalf.

    Reply
  12. Jack Feehily

    Sorry, Anthony, but for me the question raises the whole issue of the priority of participation of the assembly over that of the choir. I have always believed that music and musicians must always be seen as servants of the liturgy. These renditions of the Kyrie and the Gloria seem obvious to me as performances. Let the choir give concerts to lovers of sacred music, but let the entire assembly proclaim in song the mercy and glory of God. Let composers prepare and arrange settings of these pieces that honor the participation of all and which don’t go on endlessly. I’m sorry but I believe that while the Kyries and Gloria’s of the great composers are of soaring beauty, they are out of place in the Mass since the reform called for by SC. Silent sitting or standing during these choral renditions are both to be abhorred. Sorry.

    Reply
  13. Jared Ostermann

    A celebrant I know once dismissed orchestral masses because he had been at one, and “the vast majority of the congregation was distracted from prayer by the performance.” Since he was not my boss, I pushed back a bit and asked him how, while celebrating Mass, he was able to look out over a large crowd and judge the interior disposition of each individual – enough to know that the vast majority were distracted. I asked him whether any human could (or should try to) glance at a crowd and accurately see to the heart and mind of each person there. I know these Mass settings are an easy target – and actually a significant portion of my doctoral document was devoted to a discussion of many reasons why they are not ideal in the novus ordo. At the same time, I wince when people glibly dismiss them as a performance, and dismiss the congregation as spectators distracted by the music. Maybe just from living in Vienna where the works never left the liturgical culture, I’ve seen that this is far too simplistic an assessment. I have personally experienced these larger works as sung prayer, and these works have often helped me enter more fully, actively, and consciously into the liturgy.

    As I also told the celebrant in question, there are many factors that contribute to how these pieces “work” in the liturgy (including placement of the ensemble, length of the piece in question, disposition of the conductor, cultural background of the congregation, etc.). And to return to the post topic, one important factor is the posture of the congregation. Standing does help make it clearer that the congregation is actively involved, at least on an internal level, with what is sung. In addition, standing just removes a lot of unnecessary and sometimes distracting shuffle (which incidentally is nowhere indicated in the rubrics) – especially during the opening rites.

    Reply
    1. Karl Liam Saur

      @Jared Ostermann – comment #21:
      +1

      Reply
  14. Jared Ostermann

    Hopefully that is not too much rabbit-hole. However, I think that how the Mass settings are perceived is integral to the discussion. If you see them as mere performances, then people may as well sit and listen. If you see the possibility of active participation and prayer by the congregation, it is worth thinking about encouraging a posture conducive to engagement.

    Reply
  15. Jim McKay

    Jared Ostermann : I think that how the Mass settings are perceived is integral to the discussion. If you see them as mere performances, then people may as well sit and listen. If you see the possibility of active participation and prayer by the congregation, it is worth thinking about encouraging a posture conducive to engagement.

    I agree completely, and would take it a step further. If you believe the Gloria is “not integral to the opening rites,” what is the point of active participation? is it a distraction from participation?

    For me, “hallowed be thy name” seems like the next step after recognizing that we are in God’s presence, so the Gloria follows appropriately in the opening rites. Sitting detracts from the exuberance of praise intended there, but I would not be bothered by sitting. (I have found myself still standing midway through the Gloria when others were sitting, so I can’t say how engaged I was lol)

    Reply
  16. Jeff Rexhausen

    In one way or another, several commenters have touched on the context of this piece of liturgical prayer.

    From the website of Jonathan’s parish, I note that they have 6 Masses on Sunday, plus a vigil Mass, so there are plenty of options for parishioners. The parish leadership has probably discussed at length some of these questions that are tangential to the one posed by Jonathan, and it might be worthwhile to have Jonathan offer some thoughts on them at the close of this discussion.

    To the question: I particularly like Jeffry’s reasoning, though Todd makes a helpful distinction about the unique character of the Eucharistic Prayer. But most of all, I am appreciative of Jared’s comments because they remind me that my active participation in Mass or other liturgies does not depend on whether or not I am singing or speaking certain parts of the collective prayer we are engaged in.

    Yes, I think standing is to be preferred (with it clearly understood that people are not expected to do this if it is burdensome for them), even though one can be just as engaged in prayer while sitting, as I do when we have a meditation song after communion. I would add that this seems particularly appropriate during a prayer of praise like the Gloria.

    But more importantly, I want to ask Jonathan why people currently sit during these times. Because they follow the leadership of the celebrant? Because they see this as a performance? This matters. What efforts have been made to find out how the people perceive the current practice? What do you know about what Jared refers to as the “interior disposition” of the people?

    So, Jonathan, I think this is something you need to be discussing within the parish. And not just the leadership – as Jack R often notes, the people should be listened to. This will give you insights into what sort of formation may be helpful if you decide to make any change in the current practice.

    Reply
  17. Jonathan Day

    I want to thank everyone for thoughtful comments thus far. We are blessed, in our parish, to have not only a fine choir but also several generations of priests who love the liturgy – in English and Latin, and a current parish priest who is both a musician and a scholar of liturgy. The usual clichés about Jesuits and liturgy don’t apply, here at least.

    Why do we sit during the Kyrie and Gloria? The celebrant sits, and then the people follow. Why does he sit? Not sure. Personally, I’m with Jared (comment 14) and Anthony (15): these are prayers of the whole assembly, even though the choir is doing the singing. When the choir is on vacation, the entire assembly chants these prayers, and we stand to do so.

    To Jack’s comment (20): should the choir ever sing in place of the assembly? Does this turn the prayer into a performance? Here I can only speak from personal experience, in this specific setting: it doesn’t feel at all like a performance. I think this is mostly because I know the words well, and because there’s no other liturgical action going during the Kyrie and Gloria. It’s therefore easy to follow along and pray while the choir sings, focusing not only on the music but also on the words.

    Still, if I were in charge (I am decidedly not) I would have all of us stand.

    I’m guessing that some would say that it’s too taxing on a congregation to stand through the two sung prayers. I struggle with that, because we stand for large parts of the rest of the Mass. At the Russian Orthodox church where my brother sings in the choir, everyone stands for a liturgy that can easily go for two hours.

    That liturgy, by the way, is also sung “by the choir”, and in Slavonic! But it doesn’t feel as though they are “performing” or that we are at a concert. Again, just a personal reaction.

    Reply
  18. Ann Olivier

    The way I learned it, kneeling is a gesture reserved uniquely for the Lord, for offering repentance, acceptance of dominion, and for adoration, thanksgiving and praise. So it is proper to the central parts of the Mass. And I very much miss kneeling for the Confiteor at the beginning. Yes, to round things out, kneeling in thanksgiving after receiving Communion is also most appropriate. (I’ll never forget a little boy of about eight who once sat in front of me at Mass. He swaggered up to Communion, returned with face beaming, knelt on his pew, loudly clapped his hands (!!), then leaned his head on the pew in front of him, praying intently for the longest time 🙂

    The idea that standing is for vocal prayers/singing makes sense.

    Reply
  19. Ann Olivier

    About singing/praying: If I’m not mistaken, Handel is included in the list of Anglican saints because of the Messiah. Even has a feast day. Makes great sense to me.

    Reply
  20. Ben Yanke

    Anthony Ruff, OSB : @Jared Ostermann – comment #14: I’m with Jared. Since the choir is standing, everyone else should be able to stand also. (Of course if some need to sit for personal reasons it’s fine.) We’re all one choir, whether singing the polyphony or uniting ourselves with the singers by active listening to it. awr

    This notion seems rather silly. Of course the congregation is not the same as the choir/schola, and they are not treated the same. Do you want the congregation to stand during the offertory motet as well?

    Reply
    1. Jared Ostermann

      @Ben Yanke – comment #29:
      Is the offertory motet, in its text and liturgical role, a corporate prayer? Is it a required text? Is it the sole focal point of the assembly and priest? Or is it an optional text/piece that accompanies other liturgical actions?

      The processional Propers (even assuming that you mean the Proper and not a freely-selected motet) are not really comparable to the Ordinary, as witnessed by the fact that all of the Ordinary is required (and has greater historical and legislative connection with congregational involvement), while all of the Propers are optional.

      And be careful – if there is no connection or unity between the sung prayer of the choir and the interior participation of the assembly, then there is no need for the choir or its repertoire in the Mass. Choral music becomes, as some would phrase it, “liturgical wallpaper.” The idea that “we are all one choir” is one of the key arguments for the continued existence of choral repertoire in the reformed liturgy. Sure, the Church *allows* the choir to sing by itself in current legislation. But unless you have a more fleshed out theological framework, mere allowance is not a convincing reason to invest in choirs and their repertoire anymore.

      The choir is not the same as the congregation (in the sense that it sometimes plays its own unique role liturgically), but it is also not a separate and ontologically distinct clerical body.

      Reply
  21. Sean Whelan

    While we have been admonished not to hijack the thread, I don’t believe this question should be asked without further clarification. The assigned posture is one of standing, from Entrance Chant until conclusion of the Collect. Perhaps there are times when one might be seated, depending on a ritual action – though I cannot think of any. I guess my biggest question, even beyond what sort of benefit is there to a choral only piece (yes, I know it is a valid option, but again, why?) is why would you choose a piece of music that lasts long enough that you feel the need to even ask whether they should sit?

    And so that I keep somewhat on topic, I will reply that no, they should not sit. If standing for that length of time is such a burden, then you owe it to people to explain why you’ve selected such a piece. You shouldn’t be changing the instruction on posture so that you can present a lengthy-choral only setting.

    Reply
  22. Fr. Jack Feehily

    Of course it is appropriate for the assembly to be ministered to by a choir but in the proper places. A prelude……A special song during the Prep of the Gifts, One of the communion songs perhaps, and the recession. None of those pieces require the vocal participation of the assembly. The Kyrie and the Gloria are parts that belong to the assembly as well as the choir. Everyone here should know very well the origin of the practice of singing elaborate settings of the Kyrie and Gloria. It was during the time when listening was the principal form of participation. That has not been true since the publishing of the NO. This practice smacks of trying to “improve” the NO by including elements from the TLM otherwise known as the ROTR. I have no doubt that such renditions are “beautiful”. What happened at the Last Supper and at Calvary was far from beautiful.
    There are some 17,000 plus parishes in the US. A tiny fraction of them are able to obtain the services of the highly trained musicians and liturgists who frequent this site. I do respect your training and many of your insights, but some of the things offered here are, how shall I say, precious.

    Reply
  23. John Kohanski

    At the principal Mass at my parish, on most Sundays the ordinary (except the Credo, always sung congregationally to chant) is sung by the choir. We stand for the Kyrie, Gloria, Sanctus/Benedictus, but are usually kneeling during the Agnus Dei. Sitting can imply a performance, even if it is not. In fact, I advocate for standing during the psalm as well.

    As for the Orthodox, my guess is that most RC churches would be pretty empty if the Mass was over an hour every week and/or standing the whole time.

    Reply

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