Pope Francis on old Mass: “Just a kind of fashion”

Yesterday (Friday, Feb. 14), Pope Francis held an audience with the Bishops of the Czech Republic who came to Rome for their ad limina visit.

In the visit, as it usually happens in such cases, other than the formal address, the Pope heard the questions and coments of the bishops. Archbishop Jan Graubner, of Olomouc, told the Czech section of the Vatican Radio how it went:

[Abp. Jan Graubner speaks:] When we were discussing those who are fond of the ancient liturgy and wish to return to it, it was evident that the Pope speaks with great affection, attention, and sensitivity for all in order not to hurt anyone. However, he made a quite strong statement when he said that he understands when the old generation returns to what it experienced, but that he cannot understand the younger generation wishing to return to it. “When I search more thoroughly – the Pope said – I find that it is rather a kind of fashion [in Czech: ‘móda’, Italian ‘moda’]. And if it is a fashion, therefore it is a matter that does not need that much attention. It is just necessary to show some patience and kindness to people who are addicted to a certain fashion. But I consider greatly important to go deep into things, because if we do not go deep, no liturgical form, this or that one, can save us.”

H/T Rorate Coeli.


  1. “It is just necessary to show some patience and kindness to people who are addicted to a certain fashion.”


    Now this I’d say is vintage Bergoglio!

    I think I like him even more.

  2. Well, just remember, it’s second-hand reporting. That said, the energy sketched seems true to the person. (It’s not an energy that would be spent in abrogating SP.)

      1. @Bill deHaas – comment #8:
        I don’t. It’s my impression. I thought I made that clear enough. But, since I obviously didn’t, I do now. (The declarative statement was about the energy that seemed to be sketched, not directly about the person.)

  3. I’m certainly not for returning to the Latin Mass, but Francis’ remark this time doesn’t seem to realize how painful all this is to the trads. For them it’s obviously nothing so trivial as a “fashion”, it’s more like a symbolic anchor. It shouldn’t be, but for them I think it is.

  4. This is the first time I have strongly disagreed with the Holy Father. I still have a great affection for him. Perhaps sometime he will investigate how the EF is lived today and change his perspective.

    All my meditation on the Eucharist and piety has taken place at EF Masses. To characterize, as our Holy Father now has, Tridentine worship as a “fashion” gravely understates the deep contemplation and growth possible in this rites. Maybe the Holy Father should meet with earnest and contemplative younger EF adherents and even attend Mass with them. Perhaps Pope Francis could offer the homily and administer Holy Communion. I am certain HH will be given a most sincere welcome.

    I have decided to return to frequent EF attendance because the new liturgy often feigns a confected, saccharine “community” based on plastic interpersonal relationships rather than the uplifting heartfeltness which then leads to lasting love and concern for sisters and brothers.

    1. @Jordan Zarembo – comment #5:

      Clearly, the Pope is not talking about people like you who do “go deep into things,” but those who do not, and only think of it as a “kind of fashion.”

      Which I thought he made quite clear with this: “if we do not go deep, no liturgical form, this or that one, can save us.”

    2. @Jordan Zarembo – comment #5:

      It is important to note that Pope Francis seems to harbor no ill-will toward the movement. This reaction is actually not unlike that of many clergy who were formed as priests in the same era as the Holy Father — “Why would they want to go back to that? To discount it as a fad, or as mere nostalgia is to not understand what it is

      Perhaps this gives us some answer to the question Will the Reform of the Reform Wither?

      In order to “Go deep” into the older liturgical form, we will need competent theologians and spiritual writers who can discuss and unpack the riches of the liturgy, connecting it to contemporary life.

      Some other things that the Usus Antiquior movement should consider doing:
      – following the example of St. Francis, St. Vincent de Paul, and others who had been nourished by the ancient liturgy, to go out and take on charitable and evangelistic works.
      – continue fostering participation in and understanding of the liturgy in the mode conducive to the UA.
      – no snide remarks — from here on out, it is time to be on best behavior.
      – for those like us who are both young and have grown in our Christian lives by participating in the UA, we need to witness to that — the movement is more than broken folks clinging to a life-raft or liturgical hipsters looking for a passing fad that is noted but not mainstream.

      1. @Matthew Morelli – comment #11:
        Now you are beginning to talk a language that Francis will understand.

        To really get along with Francis I suggest study of his four principles FOR THE COMMON GOOD AND PEACE IN SOCIETY from The Joy of the Gospel 217- 237 which I think Francis sees as applying to the church as to society

        1. TIME IS GREATER THAN SPACE: Time governs spaces, illumines them, and makes them links in a constantly expanding chain, with no possibility of return.

        2. UNITY PREVAILS OVER CONFLICT: Conflict cannot be ignored or concealed. But there is also a third way, and it is the best way to deal with conflict. It is the willingness to face conflict head on, to resolve it and to make it a link in the chain of a new process. “Blessed are the peacemakers!” (Mt 5:9)… but this can only be achieved by those great persons who are willing to go beyond the surface of the conflict and to see others in their deepest dignity.

        3. REALITIES ARE MORE IMPORTANT THAN IDEAS. There also exists a constant tension between ideas and realities. It is dangerous to dwell in the realm of words alone, of images and rhetoric.

        4. THE WHOLE IS GREATER THAN THE PART. An innate tension also exists between globalization and localization. We need to pay attention to the global so as to avoid narrowness and banality. Yet we also need to look to the local, which keeps our feet on the ground. Together, the two prevent us from falling into one of two extremes. In the first, people get caught up in an abstract, globalized universe, falling into step behind everyone else, admiring the glitter of other people’s world, gaping and applauding at all the right times. At the other extreme, they turn into a museum of local folklore, a world apart, doomed to doing the same things over and over, and incapable of being challenged by novelty or appreciating the beauty which God bestows beyond their borders.

        My interpretation of Francis remark about “fashion” is that he regards the “liturgy culture wars” as conflicts about fashion and does not yet see anything in the conflict that requires his attention (other than patience )to get beyond the surface of the conflict and encounter others in their deepest dignity, at least yet!

        Incidentally #1 is a great way to think of Tradition (organic growth) in a forward, eschatological fashion.

    3. @Jordan Zarembo – comment #5:

      Jordan: I have decided to return to frequent EF attendance because the new liturgy often feigns a confected, saccharine “community” based on plastic interpersonal relationships […]

      If this is indeed how I instinctively evaluate the reformed liturgy, then there is no reason for me to participate here. I have tried for the entire PTB run to be equanimous, but now I know I am inherently biased. To pretend that one is unbiased when he or she is deeply biased is great deception. valete omnes [?].

      1. @Jordan Zarembo – comment #14:


        I know your struggle to hold on to the truth has been difficult, and much has been played our here. However, I think your love of the EF and the Catholic faith is real, and your bias no worse than anyone else (the Pope not excepted).

        If participating here helps you continue in the struggle, the struggle in which saints are made after all, I would not have you stop.

      2. @Jordan Zarembo – comment #14:

        It is perhaps a big mistake to evaluate the OF based on such feelings. I do not doubt that these words of yours reflect how you feel, but the objective reality is, I believe, quite different. The objective reality is expressed in the hymns and songs, in the prayers and the scripture readings, in the ritual and its many gestures from font to funeral Mass. The nature of the relationships we enact in the liturgy are neither plastic nor protean, but familial and eternal, grounded in Christ and the Triune God.

        As I experience the community of believers, I find that there is a great consciousness of this at a fundamental level, although there are many challenges to it on a more superficial level.

        I do not judge you for your decision, but it surprises me a little.

      3. @Rita Ferrone – comment #18:

        Thank you Rita for your well-written words. I am writing a thesis which requires much more attention than I give to it. Because of this I must take a break from PTB. There is never a break, however, from reasoned and charitable conversation. I sometimes fail in the latter case.

      4. @Jordan Zarembo – comment #26:


        Your decision to focus on your thesis is probably very wise. Ignatius decided that the consolations that he experienced in prayer that competed with his studies were probably not from God. Likewise although I very much doubted the value of doctorate, eventually I decided to accept it as God’s will for me.

        However, too much attention on this blog has been given to the EF in comparison to other groups such as Hispanics and Blacks (Rocco keeps reminded us that there are more Black Catholics than Episcopalians in this country). The Reform of the Reform and the EF have diverted our attention from the great number of problems with the OF and the large amount of mediocrity that people in the pews experience.

        B16’s pontificate raised expectations far too high among those devoted to the EF. Francis is left with the task of moderating those expectations. When everyone realizes that the EF is not going to go away will be a better time for productive encounters.

        I hope you will be back in the future. The EF needs articulate voices from among the younger generations. Your intellect, honesty and humility are great assets for being that voice.

        As for charity, I suspect Francis would be the first to admit that his “zingers” are often faults. What ultimately saves him is not perfect charity but humility and mercy. There is a genuine function to anger in our lives. It signals to others that we are hurting, and that they need to reconsider what they are doing that results in our hurting.

      5. @Jack Rakosky – comment #29:

        [side chat]

        “Ignatius decided that the consolations that he experienced in prayer that competed with his studies were probably not from God.”

        Interesting. Did he say how he came to that decision?

        Just asking for, um, a friend who is another dissertator who should probably spend more time on her thesis than on perusing blogs in the name of spiritual nourishment for her faith (heh).

        [/end side chat]

        @Ben Dunlap – comment #47:

        Thank you for sharing your perspective. Clearly, you’re not into some “fashion” but have “gone deep.” 😉

        People like you should speak up more, if only to counter those “hostile internet group thinkers” (@comment #44).

        I myself am not interested in the EF, but share your view about the current LoH, which I gave a shot a while ago, but then gave up quickly. I might track down and give “the preconciliar Office” a try sometime though, so thanks for that too.

      6. @Elisabeth Ahn – comment #49:
        From Saint Ignatius Own Story as told to Luis Gonzalez de Camara

        BTW, this is a great little book, a far better way to introduce people to Ignatius than the Exercises. It is really good for understanding discernment, because Ignatius took into account not only what was happening to him psychologically but also what was happening in his social environment, especially his relationships with others.


        Beginning on p. 39 When Ignatius returned to Barcelona two potential mentors offer to help him in his studies, i.e. Latin grammar. He had wanted to remain in Manresa with a Friar whom he admired as a spiritual director “to make progress in the spiritual life and even to be of help to souls” However the Friar died. Notice the discernment being set up by events in the social environment.

        Returning to Barcelona he began his studies with great diligence. But one thing stood very much in his way…he received new light on spiritual things and new delights. So strong were these that he could memorize nothing, not could he get rid of them no matter how much he tried. Thinking this over at various times, he said to himself “Even when I go to prayer or attend Mass these lights do not come to me so vividly” Thus step by step he came to recognize it was a temptation.

        Ignatius then went to one of his teachers and told him the whole story, promised never to miss class again. “He made the promise to such great effect that he never experienced the temptations again.”

        Notice the resolution is also made in the social environment just as strongly as in the psychological environment.

        Latin-English text resource for the old Monastic Divine Office
        I chose the pre Trent monastic office since it usually but not always is the closes text for the next web site.
        Chanted each day in Latin except for Matins
        If you get an error at this last site try removing whatever is at the end after the slash.

        Of course you should try the LOH at
        if your problem was managing the ribbons rather than the text

      7. @Jack Rakosky – comment #50:

        1. Thank you for your thoughtful response and the book recommendation.

        To say the least, discerning what is from God versus what is a mere temptation (which, incidentally or perhaps providentially, was the topic of the day’s readings and the Pope’s homily) remains a challenge…

        2. Thank you also for all the resources, especially the LOH one, which looks wonderfully promising, for indeed it was those darn ribbons and all the flippings involved that did me in!

        I suspected there would be many online resources at my disposal; I just didn’t look hard enough, as I always prefer to pray from a book rather than from a screen (just as I prefer to read from a book rather than a screen). But, I might have to resort to the latter if I were to get anywhere with this prayer — at least till I get used to the whole structure.

        @Matthew Morelli – comment #51:

        What a neat site; it’s now bookmarked. Thank you.

        @Xavier Rindfleisch – comment #52:

        And thank you to you too! That too looks like a mighty cool site.

        As for our Extraordinary Holy Father, it goes without saying that he is a man of prayer, who probably could recite the whole Divine Office by heart now — in both Latin and Spanish!

        It’s also quite obvious that he is, through and through, a man of Vatican II. In this regard, I thought this observation by Fr. Spadaro in his La Civiltà Cattolica interview with the Pope was revealing and spot-on:

        “In light of his previous affirmations, I imagine that he will deliver a long and articulate response [to my question, What does the Second Vatican Council mean?]. Instead I get the impression that the pope simply considers the council an event that is not up for debate and that, as if to stress its fundamental importance, is not worth discussing at too great a length.”

        Well, obviously. 🙂

      8. @Elisabeth Ahn – comment #49:

        If you would like to take a look at it, you can find it online at http://www.divinumofficium.com — there are settings that allow you to show all of the prayers in their entirety, which is useful for one unfamiliar with the older Office. Also, the texts can be displayed in both Latin and English (and are displayed as such by default).

        Also, it is possible to tweak the settings so that the propers shown match for the Saints in the current calendar (but still according to the 1960 rubrics). While this would not be an option for one who is bound to say the Office, it would not be inappropriate for one praying it as private devotion.

        From what I understand, laity who would not pray all of the Hours would often pray Prime, Sext, and Compline. These are more comparable in length to Morning Prayer, Midday Prayer, and Night Prayer in the Postconciliar LotH.

  5. I have never met anyone who attends the Extraordinary Form who sees it as a fad or fashion. The Mass of Paul VI is much more subject to “fads”…remember the “folk mass”?

  6. Well we are slowly collecting a picture about Francis and liturgy minority groups.

    On the plane back from Argentina, in response to a question, he revealed he initially had negative reactions to the “Renew in the Spirit” movement , but changed his mind as he got to know them better. Part of his improved view was how they conducted themselves.

    We can get some ideal of how he expects non mainstream liturgical movements to conduct themselves in the “advice” he recently gave to the Neocatechumens on several hot bottom issues in regard to them as interpreted by John Allen:


    First, the pope said, it’s more important for the group to be in communion with the local church and its bishop than to uphold all the particulars of its own spiritual path.
    Translation: If local pastors or the bishop asks you to join everybody else for Mass on Sunday, do it. If the Vatican tells you to play by the liturgical rulebook, do that too.

    Second, Francis urged the Neocatechumenate to respect the local cultures in which the group wants to put down roots.
    Translation: Don’t ride into places such as Japan, or Nepal, and insist that in addition to becoming Catholic, everybody also has to become Spanish or Italian.

    Third, the pope asked the Neocatechumenate to foster internal freedom and to respect those who decide to leave the group.
    Translation: Lighten up internally, and when somebody leaves, don’t swing into action like a K Street lobbying firm specializing in character assassination.

    Why would Francis interpret some of the interest in the EF as “ fashion.” Well interest in magna cappas, lace, mantillas, the Benedictine altar arrangement certainly suggest this as something rather superficial that does not merit much attention. However he may also have noted that people with an interest in Latin and/or chant also often have an interest in the EF. He may regard that as a temporary phenomenon because of the SP document.

    Francis has said several times that he questions his own initial reactions, sometimes finds they were wrong, but on other occasions comes back to them after deeper study. Looks to me that he is still in the “deeper study stage” about the EF but for right now is comfortable with how things are and will let other people work them out.

  7. The Pope speaks with great affection, attention, and sensitivity for all in order not to hurt anyone.

    That might be his intention, but I fear his words might be misinterpreted as insensitive by those who are attached/drawn to the older liturgical form. I mean, you can’t just preface everything you say with “no offense, but…” and expect no offense will be taken.

    He cannot understand the younger generation wishing to return to it.

    Maybe he should speak to some of the younger generation who are drawn to the older liturgy, that he might better understand where they’re coming from. It might be regarded as arrogance or presumption to make remarks like “it appears to be some kind of fashion” as the motivation for something he doesn’t understand.

    “If it is a fashion, therefore it is a matter that does not need that much attention.”

    “The Pope speaks with great … attention.” If this is not a fashion, then, it — or rather, the people at stake — deserve attention.

    “It is just necessary to show some patience and kindness to people who are addicted to a certain fashion.”

    Is “addiction” really the most sensitive language to use here?

    1. @Jeffrey Pinyan – comment #13:
      “That might be his intention, but I fear his words might be misinterpreted as insensitive by those who are attached/drawn to the older liturgical form.”

      Unfortunately, many people attached to the older form, especially the ones who are active on the internet, are in a mode to perceive insensitivity and hostility from those who do not conform to their groupthink, even when the intention is absolutely benign.

      It doesn’t matter. Traditionalists will interpret what they want, no matter what Pope Francis says or is said to say.

      1. @Todd Flowerday – comment #16:
        Oh. Well then, carry on!

        Really, is this the best we can hope for? Groupthinking traditionalists will perceive hostility, so it doesn’t matter. Clearly they have not even the meanest intelligence, and are living on another planet.

        Nevermind whether the words can be regarded as hostile or insensitive by others who don’t fit into the ignorable minority.

      2. @Jeffrey Pinyan – comment #20:
        It’s a statement, or a prediction if you will, based on observation and personal experience. Rorate Caeli is one such site; one among many. When I comment on a site like NLM, I’m immediately tagged as “unprofessional” or “arrogant” or even a heretic for disrupting the groupthink.

        Can we hope for more? I think we can. I think we cultivate dialogue and good relationships in real life.

        I lament many traditional-leaning Catholics drive 35 miles to a basilica in the state capital rather than remain as part of a Catholic community close to home and university. One couple I know raised a good bit of foment about kneeling during the Eucharistic Prayer, or the partial lack thereof. I invited them to serve on the liturgy commission. After the pastor and LC was convinced to change the prior practice, they were seen less and less at Mass, though they still come for Saturday confession on occasion.

        How am I to interpret that? I believe their sensibilities would have informed the larger parish in a constructive way, inviting them into a give-and-take, a commitment beyond just simmering in a back pew or rabble-rousing.

        Truth be told, I find traditional-leaning Catholics far more palatable in real life, at Mass, over a beer or coffee, or chatting in a friendly way. Where a friend and I can be real people. This internet stuff is nearly useless in most regards that way.

        Count me also glad Jordan discusses here with us. He makes a far better attempt than I to listen.

      3. @Todd Flowerday – comment #28:
        When I comment on a site like NLM, I’m immediately tagged as “unprofessional” or “arrogant” or even a heretic for disrupting the groupthink.

        It’s developing into a self-congratulatory forum, a choir singing to the converted Shawn Tribe, the founder I believe, never envisioned for his blog. Very troubling to see such repeated and widespread repudiation of the OF and an intolerance towards the merest introduction of contrary thinking. It makes Father Z’s folks look downright progressive by comparison.

      4. @Todd Flowerday – comment #28:
        Too many Catholic sites are controlled by a handful of true believers interested largely in pushing their own rigidly dogmatic agendas. The Protestant and Orthodox sites permit a real free- for- all at times. Try to find that at the NLM under new management or Father Z.

      5. @Bill deHaas – comment #45:
        Very interesting Bill. And I don’t doubt that Francis surfs the internet and has come across these sites or similar sites himself. Oh well, as the old saying goes, “give ’em enough rope and they will hang themselves”!

  8. What’s interesting is how this blog never said anything about the following comment from Cardinal Castrillon Hoyos:

    “I met Pope Francis very recently and he told me that he has no problem with the old rite, and neither does he have any problem with lay groups and associations like yours that promote it,”

    I wonder if it’s a coincidence that this comment from a bishop comes just after Cardinal-elect Muller has said that the door is still open for the SSPX. (The vatican does not insist that the SSPX give up the 1962 missal)

    Let’s also not forget the Pope’s blessing and message to the Fraternity of St. Peter on their 25th anniversary….

    1. @Stanislaus Kosala – comment #17:
      “Interesting?” Easy to explain. This blog is mostly for the other 99% of the church. The 1% are over-represented here sometimes, and it skews our view of reality.

      1. @Anthony Ruff, OSB – comment #19:

        Oh sure because this blog has very little interest in trying to gauge the attitude that Pope Francis has towards the EF and communities that celebrate it. Is that why this peace of news was posted?

      2. @Stanislaus Kosala – comment #21:

        I rather thought it was a given that in principle, the Pope has no problem with the EF and communities that celebrate it, and that the Church door is always open to everyone, and that includes the SSPX.

        It seems pretty clear, isn’t it, however, that this Pope disapproves of — and rightfully so IMO — those who “ideologize” the EF and “exploit” it to judge and condemn others who do not share their particular views, and that he has little time for those self-sanctified EF devotees who fret over superficial things (such as those listed in comment #10), or in other words, those who are caught up with “various minor customs of human origin and little or no theological significance” (to borrow from that mysterious blogger cited in the other thread).

        And if this is indeed the Pope’s attitude regarding the EF, and I think it is, I can only say Amen.

        @Karl Liam Saur – comment #24

        Me too!

      3. @Paul Inwood – comment #22:
        If you and Father Anthony think that 99% of the church shares your ideology and approach to the liturgy, then you’re just as deluded as the Lefebvrits

    2. @Stanislaus Kosala – comment #17:
      Why would the Vatican insist the SSPX give up the 1962 rite when so many of them prefer and use an earlier rite than that, including the pre-1955 Easter rites?

  9. Jordan Zarembo ==

    Please don’t stop your comments. I find them very balanced and often deep. True, the depths of thought are sometimes confusing, but they’re still worth exploring.

  10. The Missal of 1962 restored something that was missing…a communion rite for the people. What we had in our hand missals was there and taken from the Communion for the sick. That is why there was a double confiteor. There was insensitivity in implementing the Paul VI missal but that insensitivity was always there in grand display before Paul VI and after Pius V. Certainly a liturgy that required the priest to interrupt “his” Mass and leave the altar to give Holy Communion to the people was in serious need of reform.

    1. @halbert Weidner – comment #30:
      and a liturgy permitting multiple private Masses being mumbled in side chapels while the principle Mass was being celebrated at the high altar needed to be reformed as well.

  11. I suspect that when either the 1965 Mass or something akin to it, such as the “Anglican use” Mass with vernacular languages becomes normative and the dominate liturgy everwhere, that this will bring a gravely necessary unity back to the Roman Catholic Church.

    Time and vocations will be the true test, over the next 50 years God will allow what is the best teaching and also best liturgy for expressing the the faith to triumph over that which is lesser.

    I believe with certainty that the only barrier to the older form of liturgy becoming mainstream is the exclusive use of Latin, and a generation gap. If you take away the priests and bishops who are currently opposed to it, allow the option of languages besides latin and encourage proper sacred art/music, you have a recipe for success. These are ideas I share with the Rev Fr. Thomas Kocik.

  12. The Pope is a Jesuit. He draws from a tradition where {Jesuit} liturgy can be defined as ‘when no one gets hurt.’

    The reign of this pontiff will be marked by a great outreach in promoting the dignity of the poor. Unfortunately, he appears to buy into the common false dichotomy that the poor and the simple people are unable to “participate” in Divine Liturgy perceived as ornate and in an ancient tongue.

    1. @Thomas Andre – comment #38:

      Or rather, he appears to fully understand that a Liturgy doesn’t need to be “ornate and in an ancient tongue” to be Divine.

      Thank God.

  13. I’ll just add my $0.02 and say that I think Jordan’s absence from this forum would be a loss to all of us. Jordan, I hope you can find the time to stay around.

  14. Jeffrey Pinyan : That might be his intention, but I fear his words might be misinterpreted as insensitive by those who are attached/drawn to the older liturgical form.

    If some “traditionalists” find his comments as being “insensitive” perhaps they will show a little empathy and refrain from their characterizing the Novus Ordo mass as being a “clown mass” and other pejoratives and thus show a little more sensitivity to those who are attached/drawn to it.

    1. @Norman Borelli – comment #41:
      If some “traditionalists” find his comments as being “insensitive” perhaps they will show a little empathy and refrain from their characterizing the Novus Ordo mass as being a “clown mass” and other pejoratives and thus show a little more sensitivity to those who are attached/drawn to it.

      Okay, let’s consider the people who are attached to the older liturgy who do not use pejoratives about the newer liturgy, and who aren’t hostile internet groupthinkers.

  15. “he cannot understand the younger generation wishing to return to it.”

    For me (age 32) it is not a matter of returning to anything but of embracing something good that I have discovered rather serendipitously (that’s a long and very personal story that I need not burden anyone here with).

    In particular, though:

    1) I find the preconciliar Office easier to pray than the LoH (structurally), particularly for children

    2) Likewise I find the EF mass easier to attend to — and my children appear to have the same experience, although there could be any number of non-essential explanations for the latter

    3) I find a good deal of spiritual nourishment in much of the content of the liturgy that was pruned in 1970 — Septuagesima, the Ember Days, the traditional Advent collects, the singing of all four passion narratives in Holy Week and of Lamentations during the Triduum, the prayers following the Marian antiphons after Compline, the “angry psalms”, etc.

    1. @Ben Dunlap – comment #47:

      Regarding that, a priest who had been around for the changes once made the remark, “After the Council everything got easier to do, the Mass, all the sacraments. The only thing that got more complicated was the Breviary!”

  16. @Elisabeth Ahn – comment #49
    For an easy way to pray the Liturgy of the Hours, go to the iBreviary website: http://www.ibreviary.com/m/breviario.php, where you will find each “Hour” of the day’s Office conveniently set forth, along with links to APPS for iPhone, iPad and Android. The site links to various languages, and the Calendars of the Franciscans, Salesians, Passionists, maybe more; as well as the Ambrosian Rite (in Italian, of course), and even the Vetus Ordo in Latin.

    This site gives you the benefit of the reformed LOH, a reform carried out with great care and scholarship by people who truly loved the Office and knew its history and theology, as described in Bugnini’s “Reform of the Liturgy” (published by Liturgical Press). Of special benefit are the coordinated daily Scripture and Patristic lessons and, on Saints’ days (often) readings from the Saint’s works. And you’ll be praying the same Office most of the Latin Rite Church prays, including Pope Francis, who quoted the Patristic Reading of St Vincent of Lerins and, off the top of his head, located it at the Office of Readings of Friday of the 27th Week in Ordinary Time in his LATIN edition of Liturgia Horarum (in the America interview); and when speaking with the Superiors General during the 3 hour impromptu Q & A, referred to the expression “eucharistic tenderness” from the Vespers hymn for the Solemnity of St Joseph in the Spanish language Liturgy of the Hours. In an interview before becoming Pope, then-Cardinal Bergoglio said that, if fleeing a house fire, he’d grab his Breviary and daybook, “I’d be lost without those two books! Opening the Breviary is the first thing I do each morning, and closing it is the last thing I do each night.” He’s obviously very devoted to the Vatican II Liturgy of the Hours!

  17. Liturgists themselves can also be addicted to their favorite liturgical fashion. The old joke: the difference between a liturgist and a terrorist? You can negotiate with a terrorist. Trying getting a liturgist to change his ‘fashion’ to better fit his people.

  18. Rorate Caeli just posted this about an EF Mass in Brazil celebrated by Bishop Rifan:

    “During the sermon, bishop Rifan told us about his last visit to the Holy Father and that the pope thinks that the Traditional Latin Mass is a treasure to the Church and that his only fear is that the Holy Mass in the Extraordinary Form could be “instrumentalized”, and bishop Rifan answered His Holiness that he is doing everything that he could to ensure that this is not going to happen and to promote the Extraordinary Form as a treasure for the entire universal Church, to which he humbly belongs. “

  19. @Christopher William McAvoy – comment #56:

    “I share with Fr. Thomas Kocik that the reform of 1969 is irreformable and that the only practical answer is to return to what was before it, in other words 1965. I think that overtime everyone will come to this conclusion and this will bring the unity gravely needed within the Church.”

    You sound very sure, and I respect that, even though I share neither your conviction nor your view.

    If something in its current form is wrong, the answer IMO is not to return to what was before it, but to figure out a way to make it less wrong, and continue the effort until it becomes right.

    Why resort to going back to the way things were (which, by most accounts, were not without issues, either) when God gave us brains to think and minds to be creative, and, as our Pope keeps reminding us, when He always opens up new horizons for us?

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