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	<title>Comments for PrayTellBlog</title>
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	<link>http://www.praytellblog.com</link>
	<description>Worship, Wit &#38; Wisdom</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Wed, 23 May 2012 18:31:48 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>Comment on The entire texts of the extended form of the Pentecost Vigil by Kevin Keil</title>
		<link>http://www.praytellblog.com/index.php/2012/05/23/the-entire-texts-of-the-extended-form-of-the-pentecost-vigil/comment-page-1/#comment-254124</link>
		<dc:creator>Kevin Keil</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 May 2012 18:31:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.praytellblog.com/?p=14893#comment-254124</guid>
		<description>Thanks Paul. Is the sequence not used for the vigil?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks Paul. Is the sequence not used for the vigil?</p>
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		<title>Comment on Is use of the Roman Canon at large events increasing? by Ann Riggs</title>
		<link>http://www.praytellblog.com/index.php/2012/05/21/is-use-of-the-roman-canon-at-large-events-increasing/comment-page-1/#comment-254112</link>
		<dc:creator>Ann Riggs</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 May 2012 17:53:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.praytellblog.com/?p=14836#comment-254112</guid>
		<description>I hear EP II almost all the time. It has some claim to roots older than the Roman Canon, as it was taken and adapted from an even more ancient source (Hippolytus, IIRC). 
I remember hearing or reading about some encouragement to use the Roman Canon/EPI on special feasts, since it has several emboli that are inserted in those observances.
A Lutheran liturgical scholar friend of mine thinks the Roman Canon is heretical because of all of the pre-consecratory references to &quot;our offering,&quot; or &quot;this offering&quot;. The Canon is far older than the Reformation disputes about justification by faith alone, but I admit it IS very difficult to read it with a pre-Trent mindset. (Interesting that Luther, in eliminating all the &quot;offereing&quot; language, left little more than the institution narrative in place.  Luther believed that Christ was truly present in the eucharistic species -- the debates were over the mode of the presence of Christ, not the reality of that presence -- which led my friend to comment rather wryly that, in some sense, Luther out-Trented Trent.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I hear EP II almost all the time. It has some claim to roots older than the Roman Canon, as it was taken and adapted from an even more ancient source (Hippolytus, IIRC).<br />
I remember hearing or reading about some encouragement to use the Roman Canon/EPI on special feasts, since it has several emboli that are inserted in those observances.<br />
A Lutheran liturgical scholar friend of mine thinks the Roman Canon is heretical because of all of the pre-consecratory references to &#8220;our offering,&#8221; or &#8220;this offering&#8221;. The Canon is far older than the Reformation disputes about justification by faith alone, but I admit it IS very difficult to read it with a pre-Trent mindset. (Interesting that Luther, in eliminating all the &#8220;offereing&#8221; language, left little more than the institution narrative in place.  Luther believed that Christ was truly present in the eucharistic species &#8212; the debates were over the mode of the presence of Christ, not the reality of that presence &#8212; which led my friend to comment rather wryly that, in some sense, Luther out-Trented Trent.)</p>
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		<title>Comment on Gregorian Chant: The Revival Announced by Dunstan Harding</title>
		<link>http://www.praytellblog.com/index.php/2012/05/23/gregorian-chant-the-revival-announced/comment-page-1/#comment-254110</link>
		<dc:creator>Dunstan Harding</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 May 2012 17:49:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.praytellblog.com/?p=14890#comment-254110</guid>
		<description>But he also says that the new office, in order to be created, is still awaiting &quot;confirmation on the part of the secretariat of state&quot; headed by Cardinal Tarcisio Bertone.
-----------------------------------------------
It could be a very long time as cardinal Bertone seems to be taken up with more pressing matters,  such as who stole the pope&#039;s papers correspondence and released it to Wikileaks and the press.   I&#039;ve learned to place little stock in Sandro Magister&#039;s reporting.  His exuberance, dedication to unfolding intrigue, and penchant for confusing his own biased tastes, and predilections with the facts as they come to light later make him a very unreliable source.

Assuming Magister is right, his story of battling prima donnas in the Vatican squabbling over how to make Gregorian Chant the standard for a Church which has largely rejected it and Latin too, convinces me the effort, no matter who happens to have the pope&#039;s ear,  is still doomed to oblivion.  Isn&#039;t this just another  project to clean barnacles from the hull of a sinking ship.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>But he also says that the new office, in order to be created, is still awaiting &#8220;confirmation on the part of the secretariat of state&#8221; headed by Cardinal Tarcisio Bertone.<br />
&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8211;<br />
It could be a very long time as cardinal Bertone seems to be taken up with more pressing matters,  such as who stole the pope&#8217;s papers correspondence and released it to Wikileaks and the press.   I&#8217;ve learned to place little stock in Sandro Magister&#8217;s reporting.  His exuberance, dedication to unfolding intrigue, and penchant for confusing his own biased tastes, and predilections with the facts as they come to light later make him a very unreliable source.</p>
<p>Assuming Magister is right, his story of battling prima donnas in the Vatican squabbling over how to make Gregorian Chant the standard for a Church which has largely rejected it and Latin too, convinces me the effort, no matter who happens to have the pope&#8217;s ear,  is still doomed to oblivion.  Isn&#8217;t this just another  project to clean barnacles from the hull of a sinking ship.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Contours of the Catholic Mind by Christopher Douglas</title>
		<link>http://www.praytellblog.com/index.php/2012/05/21/contours-of-the-catholic-mind/comment-page-1/#comment-254102</link>
		<dc:creator>Christopher Douglas</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 May 2012 17:35:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.praytellblog.com/?p=14848#comment-254102</guid>
		<description>Julia:

Thanks for your follow-up answers.  I actually grant both of your points.  1.  I see what you mean.  For instance, people who try to reconstruct liturgies of the Church Fathers as being more authentic, more traditional.  You&#039;re certainly right; they do.  2.  You&#039;re right, my cocktail party wasn&#039;t a very good example, but you still understood my point and added your clarifications, which I find apt.  Thanks.

At any rate, it seems as if you are enjoying (and are enliveded by) your experiences and investigations.  Good.  Cheers.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Julia:</p>
<p>Thanks for your follow-up answers.  I actually grant both of your points.  1.  I see what you mean.  For instance, people who try to reconstruct liturgies of the Church Fathers as being more authentic, more traditional.  You&#8217;re certainly right; they do.  2.  You&#8217;re right, my cocktail party wasn&#8217;t a very good example, but you still understood my point and added your clarifications, which I find apt.  Thanks.</p>
<p>At any rate, it seems as if you are enjoying (and are enliveded by) your experiences and investigations.  Good.  Cheers.</p>
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		<title>Comment on The entire texts of the extended form of the Pentecost Vigil by John Swencki</title>
		<link>http://www.praytellblog.com/index.php/2012/05/23/the-entire-texts-of-the-extended-form-of-the-pentecost-vigil/comment-page-1/#comment-254062</link>
		<dc:creator>John Swencki</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 May 2012 16:25:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.praytellblog.com/?p=14893#comment-254062</guid>
		<description>Thank you for this resource.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thank you for this resource.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Hail Mary at Mass? by Karl Liam Saur</title>
		<link>http://www.praytellblog.com/index.php/2012/05/23/hail-mary-at-mass/comment-page-1/#comment-254056</link>
		<dc:creator>Karl Liam Saur</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 May 2012 16:17:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.praytellblog.com/?p=14870#comment-254056</guid>
		<description>In practice, I only am troubled by it when it&#039;s promoted by someone who presents him or her self as Do The Red Say The Black sort and who lacks self-awareness, shall we say....  I agree that tolerable impurities can arise from specious reasons. I just prefer the speciousness of the reasons to be validated.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In practice, I only am troubled by it when it&#8217;s promoted by someone who presents him or her self as Do The Red Say The Black sort and who lacks self-awareness, shall we say&#8230;.  I agree that tolerable impurities can arise from specious reasons. I just prefer the speciousness of the reasons to be validated.</p>
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		<title>Comment on A Litany of Women for the Church by Alex Ferrara</title>
		<link>http://www.praytellblog.com/index.php/2012/05/22/a-litany-of-women-for-the-church/comment-page-1/#comment-254048</link>
		<dc:creator>Alex Ferrara</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 May 2012 15:38:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.praytellblog.com/?p=14862#comment-254048</guid>
		<description>Saint Yael, who hammered a tent-peg through the skull of the enemy of God&#039;s people, pray for us!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Saint Yael, who hammered a tent-peg through the skull of the enemy of God&#8217;s people, pray for us!</p>
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		<title>Comment on Hail Mary at Mass? by Fritz Bauerschmidt</title>
		<link>http://www.praytellblog.com/index.php/2012/05/23/hail-mary-at-mass/comment-page-1/#comment-254026</link>
		<dc:creator>Fritz Bauerschmidt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 May 2012 15:00:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.praytellblog.com/?p=14870#comment-254026</guid>
		<description>Maybe I&#039;m just (liturgically) unprincipled, but this is a custom that doesn&#039;t trouble me at all. The Byzantine Liturgy even includes a hymn to the Mother of God that is sung &lt;i&gt;during&lt;/i&gt; the quite recitation of the second part of the Eucharistic Prayer:

&lt;blockquote&gt;It is fitting and right to call you blessed, O Theotokos: you are ever-blessed and all blameless and the Mother of our God. Higher in honor than the Cherubim and more glorious without compare than the Seraphim, you gave birth to God the Word in virginity. You are truly Mother of God: you do we exalt.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Liturgy is not chemistry. All sorts of &quot;impurities&quot; can creep in without messing up the experiment.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Maybe I&#8217;m just (liturgically) unprincipled, but this is a custom that doesn&#8217;t trouble me at all. The Byzantine Liturgy even includes a hymn to the Mother of God that is sung <i>during</i> the quite recitation of the second part of the Eucharistic Prayer:</p>
<blockquote><p>It is fitting and right to call you blessed, O Theotokos: you are ever-blessed and all blameless and the Mother of our God. Higher in honor than the Cherubim and more glorious without compare than the Seraphim, you gave birth to God the Word in virginity. You are truly Mother of God: you do we exalt.</p></blockquote>
<p>Liturgy is not chemistry. All sorts of &#8220;impurities&#8221; can creep in without messing up the experiment.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Hail Mary at Mass? by Karl Liam Saur</title>
		<link>http://www.praytellblog.com/index.php/2012/05/23/hail-mary-at-mass/comment-page-1/#comment-254023</link>
		<dc:creator>Karl Liam Saur</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 May 2012 14:54:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.praytellblog.com/?p=14870#comment-254023</guid>
		<description>Well, that is not a prayer *to* the saints, but a third-person reference. 

There are very limited direct prayers to saints on occasion in the Mass: in the Litany of the Saints very directly (but subordinated to, and bracketed within, prayers to the Holy Trinity), in the Confiteor (where even the rest of the faithful are asked, but again, it&#039;s subordinated), and certain patronal propers. Those have a long history.

The innovation of inserting the Ave into the Mass at the POTF lacks such antiquity. And the reported reasoning behind the innovation was specious (concern that the faithful, no longer praying the Rosary during the Mass, might forget the Ave).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, that is not a prayer *to* the saints, but a third-person reference. </p>
<p>There are very limited direct prayers to saints on occasion in the Mass: in the Litany of the Saints very directly (but subordinated to, and bracketed within, prayers to the Holy Trinity), in the Confiteor (where even the rest of the faithful are asked, but again, it&#8217;s subordinated), and certain patronal propers. Those have a long history.</p>
<p>The innovation of inserting the Ave into the Mass at the POTF lacks such antiquity. And the reported reasoning behind the innovation was specious (concern that the faithful, no longer praying the Rosary during the Mass, might forget the Ave).</p>
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		<title>Comment on The Time of Inner Renewal by Jack Rakosky</title>
		<link>http://www.praytellblog.com/index.php/2012/05/22/the-time-of-inner-renewal/comment-page-1/#comment-254021</link>
		<dc:creator>Jack Rakosky</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 May 2012 14:49:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.praytellblog.com/?p=14859#comment-254021</guid>
		<description>&lt;b&gt;We Are All Nuns &lt;/b&gt; 

&lt;i&gt;This is the time …

 for a renewed trust in personal relationships; it is a time to stay close to the poor and those in distress.&lt;/i&gt;

While God has not preserved popes and bishops from corruption by money, power and status, he has abundantly given the Church saints for its renewal, often in the form of founders of religious orders.

Certainly American women religious are our modern day saints. Before Vatican II they not only led a dual life as active religious, e.g. teaching by day, and completive religious in the convent, they were getting their educations during the summer! 

Even before Vatican II, Pius XII recognized that modernization needed to be made in education and habits(!!!), hence the Sister Formation movement. They essentially were given the task of completing modernization by Vatican II. So the Sisters have been outstanding models of doing their best with all the Church has handed them both before and afte the Council.

Unlike the bishops and the even the clergy, they are outstanding models that we can hold up and imitate, and that non-Catholics and non-Christians can admire. 

In response to the bishop’s request for more money, I made clear to my pastor my continued support for our parish ministries to the poor. My support exceeds by several times what the bishop wanted for the diocese. 

I reminded the pastor that the parish fails to earn its offertory money since I mostly worship at another parish with a sung Eucharist Prayer. I suggested simply having one such Mass per Weekend would earn the parish more money annually than the bishop was asking. 

Yes we should affirm the exemplars of life for the community, and we should take care of neediest members of the community, but at all times not just when we are in trouble. 

Community is not only dying it has never really existed if we are not talking honestly to one another. Honest talk by itself is not Pentecost, but it could be a step in the right direction.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><b>We Are All Nuns </b> </p>
<p><i>This is the time …</p>
<p> for a renewed trust in personal relationships; it is a time to stay close to the poor and those in distress.</i></p>
<p>While God has not preserved popes and bishops from corruption by money, power and status, he has abundantly given the Church saints for its renewal, often in the form of founders of religious orders.</p>
<p>Certainly American women religious are our modern day saints. Before Vatican II they not only led a dual life as active religious, e.g. teaching by day, and completive religious in the convent, they were getting their educations during the summer! </p>
<p>Even before Vatican II, Pius XII recognized that modernization needed to be made in education and habits(!!!), hence the Sister Formation movement. They essentially were given the task of completing modernization by Vatican II. So the Sisters have been outstanding models of doing their best with all the Church has handed them both before and afte the Council.</p>
<p>Unlike the bishops and the even the clergy, they are outstanding models that we can hold up and imitate, and that non-Catholics and non-Christians can admire. </p>
<p>In response to the bishop’s request for more money, I made clear to my pastor my continued support for our parish ministries to the poor. My support exceeds by several times what the bishop wanted for the diocese. </p>
<p>I reminded the pastor that the parish fails to earn its offertory money since I mostly worship at another parish with a sung Eucharist Prayer. I suggested simply having one such Mass per Weekend would earn the parish more money annually than the bishop was asking. </p>
<p>Yes we should affirm the exemplars of life for the community, and we should take care of neediest members of the community, but at all times not just when we are in trouble. </p>
<p>Community is not only dying it has never really existed if we are not talking honestly to one another. Honest talk by itself is not Pentecost, but it could be a step in the right direction.</p>
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