Comments on: And now, Madison http://www.praytellblog.com/index.php/2011/10/09/and-now-madison/ Worship, Wit & Wisdom Thu, 23 May 2013 15:25:13 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: Jeffrey Pinyan http://www.praytellblog.com/index.php/2011/10/09/and-now-madison/comment-page-1/#comment-85201 Jeffrey Pinyan Thu, 13 Oct 2011 18:09:04 +0000 http://www.praytellblog.com/?p=11783#comment-85201 Our Lady of the Atonement in San Antonio (a parish which celebrates Mass with both the Anglican-Use missal and the Pauline missal) distributes Communion by intinction, if I'm not mistaken. Our Lady of the Atonement in San Antonio (a parish which celebrates Mass with both the Anglican-Use missal and the Pauline missal) distributes Communion by intinction, if I’m not mistaken.

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]]> By: Don Muench http://www.praytellblog.com/index.php/2011/10/09/and-now-madison/comment-page-1/#comment-85195 Don Muench Thu, 13 Oct 2011 17:33:09 +0000 http://www.praytellblog.com/?p=11783#comment-85195 In Rochester (NY) we may have a new bishop sometime in late 2012. If the new bishop takes the Cup from the laity (no reason to think he would do that), then the alternative for me is to attend the local Ukrainian Catholic Church or Maronite or Melkite Church, where I will experience complete sacramental communion. Question - what about Anglican-Use parishes (only a handful, I believe)? What is their practice? In Rochester (NY) we may have a new bishop sometime in late 2012. If the new bishop takes the Cup from the laity (no reason to think he would do that), then the alternative for me is to attend the local Ukrainian Catholic Church or Maronite or Melkite Church, where I will experience complete sacramental communion. Question – what about Anglican-Use parishes (only a handful, I believe)? What is their practice?

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]]> By: Gerard Flynn http://www.praytellblog.com/index.php/2011/10/09/and-now-madison/comment-page-1/#comment-85140 Gerard Flynn Thu, 13 Oct 2011 14:53:42 +0000 http://www.praytellblog.com/?p=11783#comment-85140 Thank you J. T. Very well said. I'm in full agreement. What planet is this bishop living on? It seems as if he expects the priests of his diocese simply to shut up and take it on the chin. How well does he know them? Thank you J. T. Very well said. I’m in full agreement.

What planet is this bishop living on?

It seems as if he expects the priests of his diocese simply to shut up and take it on the chin. How well does he know them?

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]]> By: J. Thomas http://www.praytellblog.com/index.php/2011/10/09/and-now-madison/comment-page-1/#comment-84860 J. Thomas Thu, 13 Oct 2011 00:00:16 +0000 http://www.praytellblog.com/?p=11783#comment-84860 The sad thing is, these are the apostolic shepherds who waste their time declaring that those who don't dress in finery are to be withheld the cup of salvation. But in a very muttled statement the bishop blames the withdrawal of the cup on a lack of belief in the theological explanation of concomitance, as well as a the cozy co-incidence of a supposed "expiration" of permission for "experimentation." Please bishop, God's salvation has never been an experiment! Well, what is the exact problem bishop so we can address your concern of a lack of catechesis? Saint John Chrysostom seemed to understand a whole host of problems with communion practice in his time but urged his believers not to withdraw from the cup of salvation! Yes we live in a post-christian society - but judging those few who are still faithful in attending Mass and receiving the sacraments as unworthy is daft and madness. What is this American episcopal eagerness to "discern" who is faithful and who is not? Suggesting that a desire to receive of the cup is a denial of the theological explanation of concomitance is a circular rationale and un-proveable but a standard the bishop himself lays out. According to such an argument no one can satisfy the logic and be worthy of the cup. Rather, why doesn't the bishop express evangelical charity and believe that all those who present themselves for reception of the body and blood of Christ, in its sacramental and "accidental" fullness do so in good faith and to the salvation of their being? Is this not the role of the bishop? To build up the faith? Rather than diminish and demean it?! Is the difference of divine generosity really based upon a tie or shorts? Is it really based upon the number of "extra-ordinary" ministers of the Eucharist? God help this church! Please, presbyters of the diocese, inform your episcopas that he is severely outside of the judgement of the presbyteral and diaconal colleges regarding the cure... The sad thing is, these are the apostolic shepherds who waste their time declaring that those who don’t dress in finery are to be withheld the cup of salvation. But in a very muttled statement the bishop blames the withdrawal of the cup on a lack of belief in the theological explanation of concomitance, as well as a the cozy co-incidence of a supposed “expiration” of permission for “experimentation.” Please bishop, God’s salvation has never been an experiment!

Well, what is the exact problem bishop so we can address your concern of a lack of catechesis? Saint John Chrysostom seemed to understand a whole host of problems with communion practice in his time but urged his believers not to withdraw from the cup of salvation! Yes we live in a post-christian society – but judging those few who are still faithful in attending Mass and receiving the sacraments as unworthy is daft and madness. What is this American episcopal eagerness to “discern” who is faithful and who is not?

Suggesting that a desire to receive of the cup is a denial of the theological explanation of concomitance is a circular rationale and un-proveable but a standard the bishop himself lays out. According to such an argument no one can satisfy the logic and be worthy of the cup.

Rather, why doesn’t the bishop express evangelical charity and believe that all those who present themselves for reception of the body and blood of Christ, in its sacramental and “accidental” fullness do so in good faith and to the salvation of their being? Is this not the role of the bishop? To build up the faith? Rather than diminish and demean it?!

Is the difference of divine generosity really based upon a tie or shorts? Is it really based upon the number of “extra-ordinary” ministers of the Eucharist? God help this church!

Please, presbyters of the diocese, inform your episcopas that he is severely outside of the judgement of the presbyteral and diaconal colleges regarding the cure…

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]]> By: Dr. Dale Rodriguez http://www.praytellblog.com/index.php/2011/10/09/and-now-madison/comment-page-1/#comment-84822 Dr. Dale Rodriguez Wed, 12 Oct 2011 22:34:16 +0000 http://www.praytellblog.com/?p=11783#comment-84822 Sam, I almost forgot Father Z. The problems w/ his celebret came from his own site. He even stated that his bishop in Italy somehow mixed up or lost his papers. Hmmm, how convenient. Almost incredulous. Go look yourself if you don't believe me. Sam, I almost forgot Father Z.
The problems w/ his celebret came from his own site. He even stated that his bishop in Italy somehow mixed up or lost his papers.
Hmmm, how convenient.
Almost incredulous. Go look yourself if you don’t believe me.

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]]> By: Dr. Dale Rodriguez http://www.praytellblog.com/index.php/2011/10/09/and-now-madison/comment-page-1/#comment-84812 Dr. Dale Rodriguez Wed, 12 Oct 2011 22:15:37 +0000 http://www.praytellblog.com/?p=11783#comment-84812 Well Sam, let me illuminate you. Bishop John Meyers secretly emailed his fellow bishops to block the sex abuse lay panel because he stated that lay people should never be able to tell a bishop what to do. Someone at the USCCB leaked the email and correspondence which went viral. Apparently protecting bishop priviledges were more important than stopping the rape of kids. Fabian Bruskewitz, friend of Meyers who collaborated w/ him to block the lay board. Again, rape of kids was secondary. Ah, Vasa of Santa Clara. Singlehandedly drove more parishoners from parishes in his diocese than any bishop prior to him. Parishoners cheered when he left his previous diocese in Baker. Significant numbers either walked away from church participation or "were forced to go to other churches, even to the point of being told their ministries were no longer needed," said Fr. Rob Irwin. A priest of the diocese, Irwin himself sought permission to minister elsewhere last October.The directory reports an 18 percent drop in the "total students under Catholic instruction" Unheard of! Many attribute the decline to Vasa's hard-line policies, rigid theological interpretations and what they describe as a markedly top-down leadership style short on compassion. And DeWane? Well, you may not agree w/ Fr. Eugene Kennedy but this is what he says about Dewane: Frank Dewane, formerly in the soft drink business, but now making a hard sell of fascist Catholicism as if he were the Doge of medieval Venice in Italy rather than just the bishop of Venice in Florida. According to John Hushon, international lawyer and former CEO of a multinational energy company, who earned a theology degree after retiring and became active in church matters, Dewane has ignored, eliminated, or condemned any activity that he cannot personally control. He has eliminated parish councils, ruled out women‘s participating in the liturgy in any way when he presides, assigned spy-like agents to make sure that his orders are carried out by pastors, some of whom he has imported from a religious order with which he has close ties and all of whom must subscribe to his view of Catholicism. Even parish bulletins must be cleared at the chancery. Not only has he withdrawn from all inter-faith activities and fired even volunteer church workers suspected of being “liberal.” While building a large home in a location he prefers to keep undisclosed he cut the Catholic Charities budget “for financial reasons.” So you may prefer censorship Sam but I don't and I don't think the editors do either. Well Sam, let me illuminate you.
Bishop John Meyers secretly emailed his fellow bishops to block the sex abuse lay panel because he stated that lay people should never be able to tell a bishop what to do. Someone at the USCCB leaked the email and correspondence which went viral. Apparently protecting bishop priviledges were more important than stopping the rape of kids.
Fabian Bruskewitz, friend of Meyers who collaborated w/ him to block the lay board. Again, rape of kids was secondary.
Ah, Vasa of Santa Clara. Singlehandedly drove more parishoners from parishes in his diocese than any bishop prior to him. Parishoners cheered when he left his previous diocese in Baker. Significant numbers either walked away from church participation or “were forced to go to other churches, even to the point of being told their ministries were no longer needed,” said Fr. Rob Irwin. A priest of the diocese, Irwin himself sought permission to minister elsewhere last October.The directory reports an 18 percent drop in the “total students under Catholic instruction” Unheard of! Many attribute the decline to Vasa’s hard-line policies, rigid theological interpretations and what they describe as a markedly top-down leadership style short on compassion.
And DeWane? Well, you may not agree w/ Fr. Eugene Kennedy but this is what he says about Dewane: Frank Dewane, formerly in the soft drink business, but now making a hard sell of fascist Catholicism as if he were the Doge of medieval Venice in Italy rather than just the bishop of Venice in Florida. According to John Hushon, international lawyer and former CEO of a multinational energy company, who earned a theology degree after retiring and became active in church matters, Dewane has ignored, eliminated, or condemned any activity that he cannot personally control.
He has eliminated parish councils, ruled out women‘s participating in the liturgy in any way when he presides, assigned spy-like agents to make sure that his orders are carried out by pastors, some of whom he has imported from a religious order with which he has close ties and all of whom must subscribe to his view of Catholicism. Even parish bulletins must be cleared at the chancery. Not only has he withdrawn from all inter-faith activities and fired even volunteer church workers suspected of being “liberal.” While building a large home in a location he prefers to keep undisclosed he cut the Catholic Charities budget “for financial reasons.”
So you may prefer censorship Sam but I don’t and I don’t think the editors do either.

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]]> By: Gerard Flynn http://www.praytellblog.com/index.php/2011/10/09/and-now-madison/comment-page-1/#comment-84703 Gerard Flynn Wed, 12 Oct 2011 18:32:06 +0000 http://www.praytellblog.com/?p=11783#comment-84703 Shows how little you know about working class people. Shows how little you know about working class people.

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]]> By: Samuel J. Howard http://www.praytellblog.com/index.php/2011/10/09/and-now-madison/comment-page-1/#comment-84687 Samuel J. Howard Wed, 12 Oct 2011 18:01:00 +0000 http://www.praytellblog.com/?p=11783#comment-84687 In what way? What <i>is</i> best attire is class determined, but the idea of wearing best clothes to Church on Sunday is not. In what way? What is best attire is class determined, but the idea of wearing best clothes to Church on Sunday is not.

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]]> By: Dr. Dale Rodriguez http://www.praytellblog.com/index.php/2011/10/09/and-now-madison/comment-page-1/#comment-84649 Dr. Dale Rodriguez Wed, 12 Oct 2011 16:56:28 +0000 http://www.praytellblog.com/?p=11783#comment-84649 More news from Madison: http://host.madison.com/article_12b3e3d0-a352-58c0-aeca-148b7b8bf0bf.html#ixzz1aZIDApyO "diocesan officials stressed Monday that Morlino has not issued a directive to priests. “He has not issued a formal mandate or set a fixed timeline but has asked pastors to exercise their own leadership to move in this direction,” said Monsignor James Bartylla, the diocese’s second-in-command." Also: "In a letter to priests Monday, Morlino said the change was needed to deepen laypeople’s reverence for the Eucharist, the Catholic term for communion." Really? How does this accomplish this? If the laity need more catechesis then by all means do so but to withdraw it to deepen reverence? It's like no flu shot for you this year because you don't value it enough! More news from Madison:

http://host.madison.com/article_12b3e3d0-a352-58c0-aeca-148b7b8bf0bf.html#ixzz1aZIDApyO

“diocesan officials stressed Monday that Morlino has not issued a directive to priests.
“He has not issued a formal mandate or set a fixed timeline but has asked pastors to exercise their own leadership to move in this direction,” said Monsignor James Bartylla, the diocese’s second-in-command.”

Also:
“In a letter to priests Monday, Morlino said the change was needed to deepen laypeople’s reverence for the Eucharist, the Catholic term for communion.”

Really? How does this accomplish this? If the laity need more catechesis then by all means do so but to withdraw it to deepen reverence?
It’s like no flu shot for you this year because you don’t value it enough!

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]]> By: Dr. Dale Rodriguez http://www.praytellblog.com/index.php/2011/10/09/and-now-madison/comment-page-1/#comment-84637 Dr. Dale Rodriguez Wed, 12 Oct 2011 16:41:23 +0000 http://www.praytellblog.com/?p=11783#comment-84637 With all due respect you might feel that way Karl but I don't. I'm in good company w/ St. John and others in scripture who used terms like vipers, back biters and on. Didn't reflect badly on them. ( and no, I am not comparing myself or am putting myself in the same category as they are.) With all due respect you might feel that way Karl but I don’t. I’m in good company w/ St. John and others in scripture who used terms like vipers, back biters and on. Didn’t reflect badly on them. ( and no, I am not comparing myself or am putting myself in the same category as they are.)

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