Comments on: Translation cautions from Archbishop of Mainz

By: F C Bauerschmidt

F C Bauerschmidt — Sat, 25 Jun 2011 18:17:51 +0000

Last I checked, Christian have a rather different theological understanding of their scriptures than Muslim’s do of the Qur’an.

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By: Chris Grady

Chris Grady — Sat, 25 Jun 2011 08:29:04 +0000

Wikipedia’s not by chance being run out of a rectory in Worcester MA?

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By: Jeffrey Herbert

Jeffrey Herbert — Fri, 24 Jun 2011 19:29:27 +0000

Geez… seems that standards were rather high then. Are there any other faiths that require one to learn another language to worship?

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By: Chris Grady

Chris Grady — Fri, 24 Jun 2011 09:38:04 +0000

What’s hilarious, of course, is having a German preside over and make decisions about translations into English.

I mean, what if a German became Pope, say, (or a Chilean or a Nigerian head of CDW) and . . . oh wait . . .

Well, thankfully, the most recent Ecumenical Council gave the say in such translations to the local conferences of bishops.

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By: Mary Coogan

Mary Coogan — Fri, 24 Jun 2011 07:39:42 +0000

The Archbishop’s snobbery must be answered! The Venerable Bede recorded the hymn (composed between 658 and 680) of Caedmon, an unlettered monk who wrote, in the Germanic Old English vernacular, “verse worthy of the deity”:

Nū sculon heriġean heofonrīċes weard,
Meotodes meahte ond his mōdġeþanc,
weorc wuldorfæder, swā hē wundra ġehwæs,
ēċe Drihten, ōr onstealde.
Hē ǣrest sceōp eorðan bearnum
heofon tō hrōfe, hāliġ Scyppend;
þā middanġeard monncynnes weard,
ēċe Drihten, æfter tēode
fīrum foldan, Frēa ælmihtiġ.
A recording by A.Z. Foreman, in which you can hear the alliteration, is at translated by A.Z. Foreman

Bede’s Latin Translation with apology: “This is the sense, but not the words in order as [Caedmon] sang them in his sleep; for verses, though never so well composed, cannot be literally translated out of one language into another, without losing much of their beauty and loftiness”:
Nunc laudare debemus auctorem regni caelestis
potentiam Creatoris et consilium illius
facta Patris gloriae: quomodo ille,
cum sit aeternus Deus omnium miraculorum auctor extitit
qui primo filiis hominum
caelum pro culmine tecti
dehinc terram custos humani generis
omnipotens creauit.

And in fairly literal Modern English from Wikipedia:
Now we must praise heaven-kingdom’s Guardian, the Measurer’s might and his mind-plans, the work of the Glory-Father, when he of wonders every one, the eternal Lord, the beginning established. He first created for men’s sons heaven as a roof, holy creator; then middle-earth mankind’s Guardian, the eternal Lord afterwards made for men earth, Master almighty.

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By: Joe O'Leary

Joe O'Leary — Fri, 24 Jun 2011 05:54:34 +0000

I think the Enlgih language was at its best for liturgical purposes around 1600. It has evolved along very secular paths since then. English religious language tends to be musty or bloated.

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By: Fritz Bauerschmidt

Fritz Bauerschmidt — Thu, 23 Jun 2011 20:35:09 +0000

Most scholars consider the part quoted by Claire to be a spurious interpolation concocted by the simoniac Archbishop who was successor to Berthold, Laurentius Pagina, or perhaps his devious scribe, Sergy Brinius.

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By: Jeffrey Pinyan

Jeffrey Pinyan — Thu, 23 Jun 2011 17:27:29 +0000

Tou-freakin’-ché.

Well-played, Claire, well-played.

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By: Claire Mathieu

Claire Mathieu — Thu, 23 Jun 2011 17:21:06 +0000

Here is what I could read, but that part of the manuscript is quite heavily damaged (maybe that’s why Fr Ruff omitted that section), so my deciphering is approximate in places.

Hoc unum fateri oportet paupertati linguae Germanicae, sed etiam sequitur quod Germani expertes Latinae et Graecae, oratio satis verbis exprimere non desit, desit quoque necesse est ipsum sentire satis eis precibus, et sic Vestibulum ut oraret in ecclesia scandalum religionis putanda est.

Primum graece vel latine solum vinco satis explicare possunt sperare posse sufficere ad orandum est ut sit intellectus fidei nostrae habere adepti communicent.

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By: Jeffrey Pinyan

Jeffrey Pinyan — Thu, 23 Jun 2011 16:58:59 +0000

Et Claire ipsa duo paragrapha ponere in latina est oblita.

(Although I’ve probably butchered that…)

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