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	<title>Comments on: &#8220;Ancient Liturgy for Today&#8217;s Tulsa&#8221;</title>
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	<description>Worship, Wit &#38; Wisdom</description>
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		<title>By: Rev. David M. Juhl</title>
		<link>http://www.praytellblog.com/index.php/2011/05/08/ancient-liturgy-for-todays-tulsa/comment-page-1/#comment-83422</link>
		<dc:creator>Rev. David M. Juhl</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Oct 2011 15:47:50 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>I am sorry to report that Pr. Beecroft has resigned his Call to Grace Church in Tulsa, resigned from the clergy roster of The Lutheran Church-Missouri Synod (to which Grace Church belongs), and has united with the Roman Catholic Church as a layman. This grieves many liturgical, confessionally-minded Lutherans in my fellowship tremendously.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am sorry to report that Pr. Beecroft has resigned his Call to Grace Church in Tulsa, resigned from the clergy roster of The Lutheran Church-Missouri Synod (to which Grace Church belongs), and has united with the Roman Catholic Church as a layman. This grieves many liturgical, confessionally-minded Lutherans in my fellowship tremendously.<br />
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		<title>By: Cody C.  Unterseher</title>
		<link>http://www.praytellblog.com/index.php/2011/05/08/ancient-liturgy-for-todays-tulsa/comment-page-1/#comment-43996</link>
		<dc:creator>Cody C.  Unterseher</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 May 2011 23:45:48 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Jack,

I can&#039;t speak to this congregation&#039;s experience of their pastor in the role as priest, but I do know that in many &quot;high church&quot; Protestant settings -- The Episcopal Church included -- there is an (over-)abundance of clergy that have kept lay persons out of professional ministry roles. In a clergy-heavy church, who needs (a parish administrator, youth director, director of catechesis, adult ed. minister, grief minister/funeral coordinator, wedding coordinator, liturgist [insert other imaginable ministry here]).

I&#039;m not saying this is a good thing -- just reporting what is too often (IMHO) the case.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jack,</p>
<p>I can&#8217;t speak to this congregation&#8217;s experience of their pastor in the role as priest, but I do know that in many &#8220;high church&#8221; Protestant settings &#8212; The Episcopal Church included &#8212; there is an (over-)abundance of clergy that have kept lay persons out of professional ministry roles. In a clergy-heavy church, who needs (a parish administrator, youth director, director of catechesis, adult ed. minister, grief minister/funeral coordinator, wedding coordinator, liturgist [insert other imaginable ministry here]).</p>
<p>I&#8217;m not saying this is a good thing &#8212; just reporting what is too often (IMHO) the case.<br />
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		<title>By: Joe O'Leary</title>
		<link>http://www.praytellblog.com/index.php/2011/05/08/ancient-liturgy-for-todays-tulsa/comment-page-1/#comment-43937</link>
		<dc:creator>Joe O'Leary</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 May 2011 15:37:08 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>I think I see the complete works of Luther on his shelf. Luther enabled people to love the Bible. Lutherans often express love of their liturgy as well -- a taste for Scripture and the great musical heritage must play a role. I think we should have the humility to learn from them.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think I see the complete works of Luther on his shelf. Luther enabled people to love the Bible. Lutherans often express love of their liturgy as well &#8212; a taste for Scripture and the great musical heritage must play a role. I think we should have the humility to learn from them.<br />
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		<title>By: Jack Rakosky</title>
		<link>http://www.praytellblog.com/index.php/2011/05/08/ancient-liturgy-for-todays-tulsa/comment-page-1/#comment-43925</link>
		<dc:creator>Jack Rakosky</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 May 2011 14:32:47 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>“As such, Lutherans are evangelical, catholic, biblical, and apocalyptic Christians.”

An interesting marketing strategy that seems to be trying to take many Christian traditions and package them together as stability in an unstable world. 

Some of the trend toward tradition among Protestants seems to be a reaction against the other trend which has put a premium on the entrepreneurial pastor. In some of the mega-churches they reinvent themselves every six months to keep people engaged (or entertained, depending upon your perspective).

Although this parish deemphasizes the pastor as entrepreneur,  he has a strong role as priest. “In the liturgy, the pastor speaks and acts on behalf of God in these sacramental acts. God is doing the work, but the pastor serves as His called representative.” The description of the liturgy is far too priest centered for my taste. 

Personally, appeals to “stability in an unstable world” are not attractive. I am comfortable with a changing world. I also think that the churches, including congregations and the clergy, are just as “worldly” as the “world.” 

One of the most attractive aspects of Protestant laity whom I have met, is that some are personally empowered not simply in their congregation but in the world by their own study of the Bible. They have become empowered personally by Scripture even though they may have spent a lot of time in Bible study with pastors who were authoritarian. These Protestants remind me of the role the Divine Office has had as the center of my prayer life and the empowerment that it has given me in Church and society.

Christianity that is pastor and congregational centered but fails to develop Christians as personal centers of Christianity in their families and society tends to become a one hour a week Christianity, a business providing a service. 

Most churches and congregations are too pastor-centered regardless of whether the pastors act as entrepreneurs or priests or both.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>“As such, Lutherans are evangelical, catholic, biblical, and apocalyptic Christians.”</p>
<p>An interesting marketing strategy that seems to be trying to take many Christian traditions and package them together as stability in an unstable world. </p>
<p>Some of the trend toward tradition among Protestants seems to be a reaction against the other trend which has put a premium on the entrepreneurial pastor. In some of the mega-churches they reinvent themselves every six months to keep people engaged (or entertained, depending upon your perspective).</p>
<p>Although this parish deemphasizes the pastor as entrepreneur,  he has a strong role as priest. “In the liturgy, the pastor speaks and acts on behalf of God in these sacramental acts. God is doing the work, but the pastor serves as His called representative.” The description of the liturgy is far too priest centered for my taste. </p>
<p>Personally, appeals to “stability in an unstable world” are not attractive. I am comfortable with a changing world. I also think that the churches, including congregations and the clergy, are just as “worldly” as the “world.” </p>
<p>One of the most attractive aspects of Protestant laity whom I have met, is that some are personally empowered not simply in their congregation but in the world by their own study of the Bible. They have become empowered personally by Scripture even though they may have spent a lot of time in Bible study with pastors who were authoritarian. These Protestants remind me of the role the Divine Office has had as the center of my prayer life and the empowerment that it has given me in Church and society.</p>
<p>Christianity that is pastor and congregational centered but fails to develop Christians as personal centers of Christianity in their families and society tends to become a one hour a week Christianity, a business providing a service. </p>
<p>Most churches and congregations are too pastor-centered regardless of whether the pastors act as entrepreneurs or priests or both.<br />
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