Comments on: Ireland: Association of Catholic Priests

By: Samuel J. Howard

Samuel J. Howard — Sun, 01 Aug 2010 23:57:18 +0000

The Irish nation has been submerged in crawthumpery for more than a century and it has drowned out every rational or creative voice.

So Joyce, Heaney, et al. were not Irish?

By: Jeffrey Pinyan

Jeffrey Pinyan — Sun, 01 Aug 2010 22:38:50 +0000

+JMJ+

I don’t know what “echt catholic obsessions” are, and I was not trying to deflect attention from this priests’ association. My initial posts were about two of the issues they were raising.

I am interested to know just how closely the vision of these Irish priests matches the vision of Vatican II.

By: Joe O'Leary

Joe O'Leary — Sun, 01 Aug 2010 05:57:26 +0000

Well, Mr Pinyan has certainly succeeded in taking the spotlight off the initiative of my confreres and getting everyone to go on and on about echt catholic obsessions. This is just what the new organization wants to cut through. The Irish nation has been submerged in crawthumpery for more than a century and it has drowned out every rational or creative voice. The new organization is not meant to represent all the priest of Ireland but only those who see the problem and are trying, desperately and at the last moment, to reconnect with the creative resources of Vatican II. Unfortunately all such initiatives in the past have come to nothing and the eternal noise of ignorant pietism goes on and on even as churches empty and the laity turn to other religions or none.

By: Vic Romero

Vic Romero — Sat, 31 Jul 2010 03:59:11 +0000

Only comments with a full name will be approved.

Jeffrey Pinyan : +JMJ+ I don’t think Vic is saying that “it’s all about externals”, but rather that an environment which shuns or forbids external displays of religious belief is a “secularized” environment. Vic is not speaking about the empty acts of an ostentatious person, but “filled” acts of a devout believer. It is very discouraging when an internal notion (like honor for Allah, or love for Jesus Christ) is not permitted to be displayed externally because someone is stifling it.

Thank you, Jeffrey, for saying what I had intended to say in the first place. I'm new here and have yet to get used to the __________ atmosphere. I should have been warned. Fr. Anthony can be rough with his comments, no pun intended. But I don't mind being corrected when wrong or challenged when unclear.

By: Jeffrey Pinyan

Jeffrey Pinyan — Sat, 31 Jul 2010 00:05:21 +0000

+JMJ+

I don’t think Vic is saying that “it’s all about externals”, but rather that an environment which shuns or forbids external displays of religious belief is a “secularized” environment. Vic is not speaking about the empty acts of an ostentatious person, but “filled” acts of a devout believer.

It is very discouraging when an internal notion (like honor for Allah, or love for Jesus Christ) is not permitted to be displayed externally because someone is stifling it.

By: Chris Grady

Chris Grady — Fri, 30 Jul 2010 22:07:21 +0000

So it’s all about externals, right?!

By: Vic Romero

Vic Romero — Fri, 30 Jul 2010 21:38:08 +0000

You tend to infer what I do not imply. So next time I will try to write more clearly, lest I be misunderstood again.

By: Anthony Ruff, OSB

Anthony Ruff, OSB — Fri, 30 Jul 2010 19:06:56 +0000

Vic – OK, I can respect all those practices. But I think we have to be careful using “secular” or secularization” as a blanket term which only has a negative meaning, given everything the Church teaches in Gaudium et Spes about the goodness of ‘secular’ culture. Also, as I think Rita’s comments suggest, the reason for not doing these pious things could also come from the teachings of Jesus, and not merely from declining faith. Finally, I don’t have the impression that any contributors to this blog are “cultural Christians” in the sense of Szarkosy, so I tend to think that your use of “secularization” isn’t entirely relevant to this blog discussion.
awr

By: Vic Romero

Vic Romero — Fri, 30 Jul 2010 19:02:28 +0000

Only comments with a full name will be approved.

Anthony Ruff, OSB : Calling anything we don’t like or can’t handle “secularization” is intellectually lazy. It makes me wonder if you’ve really tracked everything posted on this conversational thread. awr

I like putting the cross at the top of my school work. I like making the sign of the cross when I pass a church. I like it when devout Muslims say "In the name of Allah" at the beginning of an important activity. By "secularization," I meant the process by which we "cultural Christians," as Nicolas Szarkosy described himself and others like him, no longer practice religious acts in public.

By: John Drake

John Drake — Fri, 30 Jul 2010 02:16:50 +0000

Isn’t it interesting that, when I offer a bit of support to Mr. Pinyan in his use of “JMJ”, I am suspected (accused?) of being obnoxious or divisive, but Ms. Ferrone, with her undeniably uncharitable crack about warding off evil spirits or conspicuously showing personal piety – and thus triggering this side thread – gets a free ride. I guess, as they say in the military, RHIP.

There. The dead horse has been beaten.