Comments on: “Hello Rome” – and a “Reply” from the Pope http://www.praytellblog.com/index.php/2010/05/26/hello-rome-and-a-reply-from-the-pope/ Worship, Wit & Wisdom Sat, 25 May 2013 03:33:05 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: Jack Rakosky http://www.praytellblog.com/index.php/2010/05/26/hello-rome-and-a-reply-from-the-pope/comment-page-1/#comment-5101 Jack Rakosky Thu, 27 May 2010 02:02:47 +0000 http://www.praytellblog.com/?p=2110#comment-5101 The World Values Study is strong evidence that nations are the key context of evangelization. Catholics and Protestants in the USA don’t differ by much. Nations also have a culture which is another great predictor of values. So as a Christian, shaping American Christianity and therefore forming Christians is far more important than denomination adherence. Specifically I am interested in promoting voluntary Christian leadership among highly educated persons particularly at retirement. In the postindustrial world I can get to them directly. It would be foolish to spend time with denominations. I am interested in people who pray daily, and value the bible because both are majority views in America and therefore common values. I leave open whether they attend Church since it is a minority option. Culturally and religiously America is shaped by the values of having a personal relationship with God (spiritually) and working with others in voluntary organizations. National values are very important. As for diversity within nations. Yes, there is but it is systematic and predicted by age cohort, and economic conditions during adolescence and early adulthood. Each new cohort in the USA has been more postindustrial The World Values Study is strong evidence that nations are the key context of evangelization. Catholics and Protestants in the USA don’t differ by much. Nations also have a culture which is another great predictor of values.

So as a Christian, shaping American Christianity and therefore forming Christians is far more important than denomination adherence. Specifically I am interested in promoting voluntary Christian leadership among highly educated persons particularly at retirement. In the postindustrial world I can get to them directly. It would be foolish to spend time with denominations. I am interested in people who pray daily, and value the bible because both are majority views in America and therefore common values. I leave open whether they attend Church since it is a minority option. Culturally and religiously America is shaped by the values of having a personal relationship with God (spiritually) and working with others in voluntary organizations. National values are very important.

As for diversity within nations. Yes, there is but it is systematic and predicted by age cohort, and economic conditions during adolescence and early adulthood. Each new cohort in the USA has been more postindustrial

 Report Comment


]]> By: Karl Liam Saur http://www.praytellblog.com/index.php/2010/05/26/hello-rome-and-a-reply-from-the-pope/comment-page-1/#comment-5087 Karl Liam Saur Wed, 26 May 2010 17:56:15 +0000 http://www.praytellblog.com/?p=2110#comment-5087 The limitation of that analysis being that few if any societies are neatly only of one type. Maybe Singapore is a mono-type. The limitation of that analysis being that few if any societies are neatly only of one type. Maybe Singapore is a mono-type.

 Report Comment


]]> By: Jack Rakosky http://www.praytellblog.com/index.php/2010/05/26/hello-rome-and-a-reply-from-the-pope/comment-page-1/#comment-5085 Jack Rakosky Wed, 26 May 2010 17:38:35 +0000 http://www.praytellblog.com/?p=2110#comment-5085 The World Values Study is about authority. In agrarian society authority resides in traditional values (e.g. in Scripture, in Liturgy) interpreted in minor ways by a variety of people (bishops, kings, saints, etc.) In industrial society traditional values are replaced by rational, bureaucratic belief systems interpreted by disciplines and their professionals. Still very authoritarian, just a different kind. Few acknowledged that the Catholic Church became very early and has continued to develop into a very industrial age organization with traditional values at the center. We went from the agrarian diversity of the Roman Rite to the industrial rite of Trent decided from the center and enforced by books. The Company of Jesus became in many ways the model of the international corporationl We began going in that direction with Cluny and dependent priorities. Catholicism became so industrialized that industrialized structures are called hierarchical. Vatican II is the Spirit’s gift for the postindustrial age as much as Trent and its aftermath was a gift for the industrial age. Benedict is articulating traditional values while ignoring the industrial age values, styles and practices of Church management. It is not an agrarian problem of local priests and bishops who occasionally sin and need to be repentant. The postindustrial world whose ultimate authority is its experience and that of others (e.g. the victims) is not buying. The World Values Study is about authority.

In agrarian society authority resides in traditional values (e.g. in Scripture, in Liturgy) interpreted in minor ways by a variety of people (bishops, kings, saints, etc.)

In industrial society traditional values are replaced by rational, bureaucratic belief systems interpreted by disciplines and their professionals. Still very authoritarian, just a different kind. Few acknowledged that the Catholic Church became very early and has continued to develop into a very industrial age organization with traditional values at the center. We went from the agrarian diversity of the Roman Rite to the industrial rite of Trent decided from the center and enforced by books. The Company of Jesus became in many ways the model of the international corporationl We began going in that direction with Cluny and dependent priorities. Catholicism became so industrialized that industrialized structures are called hierarchical.

Vatican II is the Spirit’s gift for the postindustrial age as much as Trent and its aftermath was a gift for the industrial age.

Benedict is articulating traditional values while ignoring the industrial age values, styles and practices of Church management. It is not an agrarian problem of local priests and bishops who occasionally sin and need to be repentant. The postindustrial world whose ultimate authority is its experience and that of others (e.g. the victims) is not buying.

 Report Comment


]]> By: Rita Ferrone http://www.praytellblog.com/index.php/2010/05/26/hello-rome-and-a-reply-from-the-pope/comment-page-1/#comment-5084 Rita Ferrone Wed, 26 May 2010 16:02:28 +0000 http://www.praytellblog.com/?p=2110#comment-5084 This is quite a stunning news report from Upper Austria, and I applaud the initiative of these young people. But the pope’s statement isn’t a “response” to it, unless I’ve missed something… As for the pope’s statement, it is more theological fog, which, in its abstraction, will fail to help. To say it’s not I who am deciding, and say in effect “I have no power” when you are in command and are in fact making decisions that affect the course of a huge institution and many people’s lives, is a huge evasion of responsibility. The people have misunderstood hierarchy? I don’t think so. This is quite a stunning news report from Upper Austria, and I applaud the initiative of these young people. But the pope’s statement isn’t a “response” to it, unless I’ve missed something…

As for the pope’s statement, it is more theological fog, which, in its abstraction, will fail to help. To say it’s not I who am deciding, and say in effect “I have no power” when you are in command and are in fact making decisions that affect the course of a huge institution and many people’s lives, is a huge evasion of responsibility. The people have misunderstood hierarchy? I don’t think so.

 Report Comment


]]>