People on PrayTell, including me, have been making connections between the abuse crisis and the upcoming imposition of the newly translated Roman missal. It’s a delicate topic, and the editor has been careful. But with the Church very much in the headlines these days, perhaps the time is now ripe for it to be explored a bit more.
As I see it, there are four different ways in which the connections can be made between magisterial failures regarding child abuse and the magisterial solicitude regarding “liturgical abuse” that the new translations evince.
Firstly, English-speaking Catholics who are broadly content with the liturgical status quo may claim to experience Rome’s unilateral and high-handed imposition on us of Liturgiam- allegedly-Authenticam as a remote (obviously no more that that) echo of the plight of children under abusive adult authority. The sacking of the previous ICEL and the junking of the 1998 ICEL translation contribute here. Important considerations from us below—after all it’s we who actually speak the language in question—have been ignored; power has being exercised unfairly, unwisely and against any spirit of collegiality. “You must accept the changes, even if you do not like them, in order to preserve the good order of the Church” echoes, however distantly, the damaging message that can so easily be unconsciously absorbed by the abused: “you mustn’t tell anyone about what’s happening to you in order to preserve the family’s reputation.”
Second, at least some of us—I’m not claiming that this applies to everyone—who were on the wrong end of abusive behavior from Catholic authority in the preconciliar church experienced the loosening up of the late 1960s as a liberation, and as an important support in our struggles not just to survive emotionally and psychologically, but to grow towards mature Christian discipleship. If we are now to go back to a version of how things were, the grief issues, as Clare Johnson has suggested on this blog earlier, are indeed large ones. (For what it’s worth, it’s this line of connection that is for me personally the most significant—see this.)
Third, in post-V2 liturgy at its best, there is a holy intimacy and noble simplicity, a plain-English truthfulness and sincerity, a naming things for what they are, that are now going to be removed, and replaced with something more distant, more elevated, and more Latinate. Even when their content is valid and fair, Vatican statements on the abuse crisis, when literally translated, often have an abstract tone that comes across as off-putting and insensitive. There is a danger that what’s intended as greater reverence and “fidelity” in the liturgy will be discredited in its hearers’ experience by its similarity to he Roman evasiveness regarding the abuse crisis—an evasiveness that decent people in non-Latin cultures have found so exasperating. Literal, ‘formal equivalence’ translations from Latin into English can easily sound stilted, unclear and obfuscatory. The point applies to the Vatican’s style of communication generally; the point also applies to the proposed new translations. And the abuse crisis gives it a new sharpness.
Fourth, authority can introduce change successfully only with the consent of the wider body. If the immediate instincts of sane Catholics are against the new translations, such consent is going to require an act of trust. It’s doubtful that church authority, in the wake of the abuse crisis, now has enough emotional credit in the bank with the faithful at large, in the way that it did in 1964, for that trust to be given. It’s going to be much harder than it was in 1964 for church authority to carry people along a path of change—especially when most English-speaking bishops are projecting loyalty and deference in their implementing of the Rome-imposed changes rather than any real pastoral conviction of their own.
Though plenty might be said against these arguments, they all seem to me at least broadly cogent. And if this overall analysis is remotely correct, then it’s important we recognise:
- how in different ways the abuse crisis is interacting with the proposed liturgical changes and generating a range of different arguments for not implementing them;
- how each of the arguments has a distinctive force in its own right;
- how the close association of the arguments at once compounds their emotional force and obscures their precise imports;
- how a point for or against any one of the particular arguments will not necessarily apply to any of the others.
One is obviously hesitant to invoke the sexual abuse crisis in connection with the forthcoming translation. There is something tasteless and below-the-belt about doing so when authority’s position on the abuse question is so difficult, and when it is receiving criticism from outside that is sometimes unfair. I still hope that our bishops (note: it’s properly their job, not the Vatican’s) will come to their senses and call a halt to the new translation, not because of the overlap with the abuse crisis, but simply because the new translation represents bad liturgical policy and bad pastoral care. But if they can’t or won’t hear more high-minded arguments, then maybe more emotive considerations will persuade them.
#1 by Jeffery BeBeau on April 12, 2010 - 7:06 pm
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Definitely some food for thought.
#2 by Ceile De on April 12, 2010 - 7:20 pm
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I fully agree about some of these attempts being “below the belt”. How many are trying to use this to forward their agenda, whether it is allowing women priests or married priests, or banning chaste gay priests, or maintaining a liturgy frozen in time in the 1970′s or a liturgy frozen in time in the 1950′s, whatever? It is sad to see so much intellectual dishonesty. “Ooh, ooh, my pet cause may benefit from this crisis”.
One can as easily blame the pre-conciliar church for fostering a climate of fear and silence as the root cause as one could the post-conciliar church for having members of the hierarchy looking for disastrous “pastoral” rather than canon law solutions for the terrible crimes.
So, blaming one liturgical side or the other in this or looking for party advantage will get us absolutely nowhere. We all feel the same way about the scandal now let’s keep the arguments on the liturgy clean and intellectually honest. Arguments can be made how both not changing and changing the liturgy could help or harm the church in this trying time for us all – let’s not start out from a premise.
#3 by Fr. Christopher Costigan on April 12, 2010 - 10:49 pm
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I think this has been the best summary so far. If you want to be disgusted, check out the National Catholic Reporter website. You can almost see the writers toasting champagne glasses with every article. You could tell they are advancing an agenda because every article basically calls for the ordination of women and ending celibacy, as having married and female priests would of course have abated any crisis (much as it has in other churches and communities, and schools, and soccer coaches…)
#4 by Anthony Ruff, OSB on April 13, 2010 - 7:59 am
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I read at the NCR that Maciel abused youth, fathered children, lied, and bribed Vatican cardinals, and that Cardinal Sodano and Pope John Paul II knew all about it and yet covered up for him.
So if there’s any reasons to be disgusted here, surely it’s with the NCR for their liberal motives in reporting this.
Chris, I have a different sense of this issue than you. And for what it’s worth, I have a 20-year track record of not advocating optional celibacy or the ordination of women. So I don’t think I’m using the hierarchy scandal as a means to advance my same old agenda. It’s going the other direction for me: my sense of what Jesus was about is changing; I could be deluding myself but I think I’m trying to hearing his message more clearly; recent events are forcing me to connect the dots; and I’m re-examining many of my former biases and assumptions.
For what it’s worth, from a brother priest,
awr
#5 by Tom Pomeroy on April 12, 2010 - 8:33 pm
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In other words, the author does not want the new translation and will use any excuse to attempt to stop it.
Perhaps putting liturgy back at the center of our faith will HELP the people deal with scandal.
#6 by Jeffery BeBeau on April 12, 2010 - 9:06 pm
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But the scandal has to be addressed decisively, otherwise it will constantly remain at the center and no amount of effort with putting the liturgy back at the center will be effective.
#7 by Geraldine o Mathune on April 12, 2010 - 9:03 pm
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Is one?
This hesitancy is not obvious to me. Quite the opposite.
I guess one is hiding it well.
#8 by Jeffery BeBeau on April 12, 2010 - 9:16 pm
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I think what Paulus is trying to say is there is a convergence of a lot of issues here, and whether directly related or not, anything coming from Rome will be seen as connected at this point in time. Also both areas, while being handled by different areas of the Vatican are both affecting faithful Catholics in the pews.
#9 by Cody C. Unterseher on April 12, 2010 - 9:52 pm
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Affecting faithful Catholics in the pews, being seen as interconnected, and being perceived (whether rightly or wrongly) as examples of pastoral inattentiveness to the needs of the faithful (at best).
#10 by Paul Inwood on April 13, 2010 - 3:46 am
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Paulus’s fourth point seems to me to be the most important: the question of trust. This is not a sex abuse scandal (we have those in the secular world), nor even a clergy sex abuse scandal (other denominations have those, too): it’s primarily an episcopal cover-up scandal.
There has been much hand-wringing about the “attacks” on the Pope, but we have to be honest and admit that he has largely brought them on himself. Until he comes clean about his own role in the past, things are not going to change. Until he can explain why Cardinal Law, forced to resign from Boston, is now swanning about in a nice house in Rome on a fat salary and, even worse, making daily decisions about who the next bishops are going to be, people will still be angry.
Paulus says that “most English-speaking bishops are projecting loyalty and deference in their implementing of the Rome-imposed changes rather than any real pastoral conviction of their own”. That, too, is a betrayal of trust.
#11 by Jordan Zarembo on April 13, 2010 - 6:19 am
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Paulus, you’ve won over even this deepest liturgical conservative on one point. I agree that many Catholics may not be able to handle a sharp liturgical change in a time of crisis. I sense that many Catholics, especially those who were poorly catechized to begin with, are barely holding on to the faith. Perhaps change cannot happen in certain places. salus animarum suprema lex. This is always the first priority.
But what about the “high church”, the liturgical conservatives and traditionalists? There are churches that have very faithful and well catechized congregations that celebrate the OF and EF with great solemnity and respect for tradition. Why shouldn’t we conservatives have the new translation? Some quite sane people have waited a very long time for a literal translation (please don’t insult other viewpoints). Would it really destabilize the Church if two English translations circulated at the same time? Not all priests and faithful conjoin liturgical politics and the abuse crisis.
#12 by Paulus on April 13, 2010 - 4:30 pm
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In the abstract, I’d be quite in favour of letting a version of the new translations in, ad experimentum, alongside the present versions, and letting the Gamaliel principle run. In practice, it strikes me that we can only afford one version of what the people have to say every time. But there seems to me a lot to be said for allowing both idioms in the presidential prayers.
#13 by Kathy Pluth on April 13, 2010 - 10:00 am
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I think any difficulty can force a “crisis” in the original Greek sense of the word. We have come to a crossroads and a decision is called for.
Jesus’ appearance on the scene caused a crisis. “For those who did accept Him, He gave them power to become children of God.”
One pathway, perhaps less often taken, is to dig deeper. Find the deep sources of spirituality of our own tradition. Dust off the Cassian and the Cappadocians, St. John of the Cross and Teresa and Tauler. Read 2 Corinthians. “Stand beside the earliest roads, ask the pathways of old / Which is the way to good, and walk it; thus you will find rest for your souls.” (Jer 6:16)
#14 by James West on April 13, 2010 - 12:52 pm
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Regarding this comment of the author:
“authority can introduce change successfully only with the consent of the wider body. If the immediate instincts of sane Catholics are against the new translations, such consent is going to require an act of trust.”
Lumen Gentium no. 22 states: “The Roman Pontiff has full, supreme and universal power over the Church. And he is always free to exercise this power. ”
I think that the current state of the Church of England and the Anglican Communion gives good examples of what happens when a church relies on the consent of the majority in order to legitimize its teachings. Clearly this concept has no basis either in the history of the Church or on Scripture.
I must agree with the comments of “Geraldine” when she questions exactly how “hesitant” this author was in making these speculations. This article is unhelpful at best, and offers no support for its thesis other than the author’s personal opinions on Church authority.
#15 by Paulus on April 13, 2010 - 4:26 pm
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The central thesis here is: “the abuse crisis in various ways makes the imposition of the new translations more difficult, and may in itself–even if we think the new translations are a desirable improvement on what we now have–provide grounds at least for delay and rethinking.”
I happen to hold also a second thesis: “the new translations will make for bad liturgy, exemplify bad pastoral care, and reflect in the manner of their imposition a poor ecclesiology.”
I can see that you don’t agree with the second of these. This is not the place for use to quote prooftexts from Vatican II against each other. My principal point in the post was not about the theology of Vatican II, but rather the socio-psychological observation that authority will not be exercised fruitfully without the consent of the governed.
I don’t see any argument in your response against my first thesis, which is the main point at issue.
On ‘hesitant’ I’ll reply later.
#16 by Fr. Christopher Costigan on April 13, 2010 - 2:12 pm
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Which is worse–actually implementing the translations at a difficult time, or delaying them indefinitely and keeping a long period of questioning, anxiety, and uncertainty?
#17 by Paul Inwood on April 13, 2010 - 4:35 pm
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There is a third and better option than either of the other two: drop the translations altogether and opt for better ones.
#18 by Paulus on April 13, 2010 - 4:57 pm
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The most significant comments on this post so far have been about my honesty in saying I was “hesitant.” I made the claim because I’d much rather that sound liturgical and theological arguments would have persuaded our bishops to tell Peter to his face that Liturgiam-allegedly-Authenticam is wrong-headed.
If I am trying to educate others in virtue, my hope is that they will be persuaded by the intrinsic, self-evident goodness of the virtuous life. When that doesn’t happen, and when I am in authority, then I impose sanctions. This is something about which a good parent is sad and hesitant, because they know that in one way they are responding to wrong with wrong, and running something of a risk that the manner of the sanction will undermine the matter of the lesson. But they take the risk prudently, for a proportionate reason. I’m reminded of how St Ignatius encourages to pray about the punishments of Hell: when motives of love fail, at least fear can keep us from disaster…
#19 by Paulus on April 13, 2010 - 4:59 pm
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(continued)
It is obvious that I am a programmatic ‘liberal’. The besetting sin of post-Reformation Catholicism is its distrust of the divine goodness at work as we discover the complexity of creation and the depth of our own responsibility for its ongoing development. It makes an idol of the way we’ve always done things. But I want to distance myself from any overtone of Schadenfreude in the above posting—just as a good teacher, in punishing children, tries to keep vindictiveness out of the proceedings. My central point is simply a sociological observation: if leadership sees the need to challenge the body, it should, besides taking all reasonable steps to ensure that the challenge is wise, choose a moment when its credibility is not impaired. So far, only Fr Christopher is even beginning to challenge that point.
#20 by Kathy Pluth on April 13, 2010 - 5:32 pm
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People love leadership–that is a sociological fact. The current crisis, or shall we say the currrent media circus, is based on a perception of a lack of leadership. Any just judgment against bishops has to do with decisions NOT made when they should have been made.
The current translations are weak. I think everyone acknowledges this. They are weak in some ways that the 1988 efforts completely failed to fix.
This strategy of delay is getting old. How many different reasons are going to be proposed for “waiting?” Waiting for what?
#21 by Jack Rakosky on April 13, 2010 - 8:46 pm
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Common to both the mismanagement around sexual abuse, and mismanagement of the liturgy is the failure of church management, both at the parish level and at the hierarchical level to listen to people. People want to give their pastoral staff, their bishop and the Pope the benefit of the doubt. But they constantly experience leaders who are really out of touch, living in their professional worlds. It is really not helpful in regard sexual abuse or the liturgy to go into complicated historical explanations of why religious professionals are where they now are. People just want things to get better, but find little to be hopeful from either professional explanations or just trust us. They want to hear things that resonate with their life experience. To do that well professionals have to begin to listen, listen, listen.
That’s why I liked the Why Don’t We Just Wait Petition to get feedback from a trial implementation. Just some common sense listening for a change!
#22 by Kathy Pluth on April 13, 2010 - 9:37 pm
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Listening? These are poll results from 1997, when “everyone knew” that “everyone wanted” the Scriptures and prayers voiced in inclusive language. Clearly, the issue was quite off the radar of most Catholics:
32) Are you familiar with the term “inclusive language,” or are you not too familiar with this term? (INLANG)
Don’t know 28 2.8
TOTAL %
1) Yes, familiar 238 23.8
2) No, not familiar 731 73.1
9) Refused 3 0.3
TOTAL 1000 100.0
37) If a new inclusive language translation of the Bible were used in your local parish, would you be more likely to go to Mass there, less likely to go to Mass there or wouldn’t it make a difference? (MSINLAN)
Don’t know 25 2.5
TOTAL %
1) Much more likely 27 2.7
2) Somewhat more likely 52 5.2
3) Wouldn’t make a difference 808 80.8
4) Somewhat less likely 47 4.7
5) Much less likely 27 2.7
9) Refused 14 1.4
TOTAL 1000 100.
http://www.thearda.com/Archive/Files/Codebooks/NATREL_CB.asp
#23 by Kathy Pluth on April 13, 2010 - 9:42 pm
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Things that bother liturgists may not bother the salt of the earth Catholic.
I think we should consider questions about popular reaction as moot, lest we project.
I also think the ecclesiological questions of power should be tabled, at least among liturgists.
Instead, why can’t the discussion center around the translations themselves.
#24 by Fr. Christopher Costigan on April 13, 2010 - 11:51 pm
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As a priest in a parish, my interest in the translations has moved pn from the theoretical to the practical. That the translations will be implemented is a done deal. My focus is not on debating what could have been or should have been, but on how to best approach this to my 5000 and change families in my parish. The issue of the Church’s credibility has been brought up here several times, as in “is this the best time to do this.” I think the bigger issue of credibility is how are parishes going to implement the translation after their priest and lay staff have been telling them how bad it is for so long? Most people haven’t read the words and only form opinions based on what they have heard. If the “what they have heard” is constant criticism of the “evil men in Rome,” then that parish has been cheated by the selfishness and pettiness of its staff.
#25 by Judy Schwager on April 14, 2010 - 11:54 am
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Fr. Christopher,
thank you for these comments. In all my dialogues about the forthcoming translations, I have tried to remain neutral and positive for the future in front of other people. It is my hope that no one even knows what my personal opinions are.
A pervading sense of negativity and disappointment only serves to foster the same. I, for one, choose to forego overwhelming doom in favor of prayer for healing, hope, and faith that true conversion is possible for all sinners.
#26 by Paul Inwood on April 14, 2010 - 1:45 am
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The inclusive language poll results that Kathy quoted are of dubious value. Many people still do not know what the term ‘inclusive language’ means when you ask them, but they sure as heck recognize exclusive language when they hear it, and react accordingly.
It’s just as pointless quoting those statistics as it would be to ask parishioners whether they would be more likely to go to St X’s church if they implemented the new translation of the Missal there. Most people have still not heard that there is a new translation coming down the pike.
#27 by Paul Inwood on April 14, 2010 - 1:50 am
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Christopher said “That the translations will be implemented is a done deal.”
That statement needs nuancing. I think for many clergy it is not a done deal, in the sense that they themselves will not be implementing it, or implementing it only with considerable editorial adjustment as they go through. For those clergy, too, the credibility of and trust in the hierarchical structure of the Church is certainly a factor in their attitude, as well as their grass-roots pastoral realization that people will not be able to pray easily through these texts.
We will then be faced with a divisive situation, rather than the unitive one that Rome expects to result.
#28 by Ceile De on April 14, 2010 - 1:29 pm
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Uh, these changes once implemented aren’t optional. Ask Archbishop Lefebvre. “oh but I’m being prophetic”, yeah, yeah, that’s what all the disobedient priests say.
#29 by Judy Schwager on April 14, 2010 - 1:37 pm
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I tend towards optimism as a general course of action, but even I realize that rabble-rousers won’t just disappear once the changes are implemented. I would hope everyone gives the new texts a charitable effort, but I have often found that some people are not that generous, and are very reluctant to change their established attitudes.
#30 by Fr. Christopher Costigan on April 14, 2010 - 3:47 pm
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Another great example of clericalism in the liturgy! No, not a priest in a cassock but a liberal priest who knows so much better than the Church or the people and will not use the liturgy of the Church but instead use his own rite, because he knows best. These priests need to remember that twice in their life they knelt down before the bishop and said the words, “I do,” when asked if they promised respect and obedience to their ordinary. The question then is whether they changed their mind or they lied on the ordination day.
#31 by Jordan Zarembo on April 14, 2010 - 5:06 pm
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I am certainly expecting an anglophone liturgical schism if/when the new translation appears. Will disobedience be rewarded? The crisis at hand suggests that Rome will probably not take a hard line towards those that continue to use the Sacramentary. Perhaps a liberal priest’s best hope is to live under an indulgent bishop. These bishops might observe the new liturgical law in the breach.
Many priests already shape the Sacramentary into their image and likeness. I hope that priests who like to editoralize will stay with the old liturgical books.
#32 by Anthony Ruff, OSB on April 14, 2010 - 5:24 pm
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I share Jordan’s fear of schism. But I don’t think it will be an out-and-out institutional schism with anyone breaking formally with Peter. Rather, individual priests will, in varying degrees, follow more or less of what’s official. We’re moving toward each priest and each Catholic being in various degrees of moral schism, basically. Regarding the texts, it didn’t have to be this way. The right kind of process, the right consultation, the right people, and we could have had an accurate text which is also beautiful and would be widely accepted. I’m sorry if this is simplistic, but as I see it 100% of the blame goes to the hierarchy which went the route it did. So now, what is the most constructive thing for anyone to do? Inevitably, answers for faithful people will vary.
Fr. Anthony
#33 by Graham Wilson on April 15, 2010 - 1:39 am
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Perhaps a sign of times to come: in South Africa the partial implementation of the new translation appears to have hastened and exacerbated the customising of the sacramentary by presiders in parishes that use it. But there are some parishes that are not using any of the new translation, 18 months after they were required to change. The SA bishops appear to be turning a blind eye, probably for good pastoral reasons, not wanting to inflame an unpopular situation, particularly in light of the present scandal distressing everyone in the Church.
#34 by Jack Rakosky on April 14, 2010 - 6:03 am
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Asking people multiple choice survey questions about inclusive language is a good way to communicate to people that you are an out of touch professional, absorbed in your professional world. In order to listen to people you have to begin where they are. In a liturgy survey I would begin by getting people to talk about their liturgy experiences. I don’t use multiple choice questions. They are more efficient, but less accurate than coding free responses. Multiple choice questions force people into your professional world, and they communicate that you are really interested in your self and your organization and profession not them. People will talk for hours about almost anything if you have a sincere interest in their lives. If you are not interested in them, they just try to get through the interview as easily as possible
#35 by Kathy Pluth on April 14, 2010 - 7:30 am
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Jack, obviously was a national poll, not a parish dialogue.
And it’s a reality check for liturgists. All too often we decide for ourselves what will/ should be meaningful to the people. All too often the people groan and roll their eyes at this latest distracting attempt at relevancy.
#36 by Fr. Christopher Costigan on April 14, 2010 - 3:48 pm
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Yet another example of how the clericalism of parish staff and liturgists can be much worse than any young priest in a cassock even imagined possible.
#37 by Jack Rakosky on April 14, 2010 - 12:20 pm
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Kathy,
Agreed. All my research in the public mental health system, although done to professional standards, and presented on a yearly basis at national conferences, used models that dialogued with consumers and professionals in both the design and analysis of results. Quite a bit different from typical academic or market research ways of doing things.
In the late 1990s when planning my retirement career, I took the Ritual Studies Course at ND to evaluate whether or not I wanted to spend my retirement studying liturgy. I had taken a number of liturgy courses there in the 1980s. The answer was that there were so few liturgists interested in the social sciences and so few social scientists interested in liturgy, that it wasn’t worth it.
I ended up getting an MA in Spirituality from ND. There are many social scientists interested in spirituality, even if there are few theologians who are interested in spirituality and the social sciences.
#38 by Fr. Allan McDonald on April 14, 2010 - 6:59 pm
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I just got back from our annual clergy conference with Fr. Ron Knot who is a priest of Louisville but currently teaching at St. Meinrad Seminary and gives workshops for priests around the world. His premise is that priests, religious and secular should be forming a presbyterate around their bishop and working with him in a unified way. He spoke against tribes being formed in the presbyterate and priests seeing themselves as lone rangers in private practice for themselves. He spoke of mature obedience in terms of our promise/vows and that many priests are still at an adolescent stage in understanding that promise/vow. With the new translation he said to us no matter what we think, its a done deal, just do it as a sign of unity with the bishop.
In implementing the new translation in a positive way, we will witness to mature obedience. We’ve got to stop blaming the grown-ups for what they did or didn’t do and work together to rebuild Christ’s Church. There’s enough blame to go around with this scandal, but it time now to stop the blame game and embrace the fullness of truth that our Church in fact has despite the hierarchy’s sins of omission and commission.
#39 by Paulus on April 15, 2010 - 4:25 am
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This argument–’be grown up and mature; accept that the deal is done; don’t rock the boat; show corporate obedience’–applies only sometimes. In particular, it is healthy and legitimate only when the powerful party acknowledges the wrong done, and undoes it to the extent that it can be undone. It also does not apply when the wrong done is outrageous–in cases of sexual abuse, its effect has been catastrophic. I have no problem with Fr Knot’s argument in the abstract. The question at issue between me and Fr Allen, I suspect, is not on the principle of corporate obedience as such, but whether or not the imposition of the new translation on the English-speaking churches is an appropriate context in which to invoke it. I need a lot of persuading.
#40 by Fr. Allan McDonald on April 15, 2010 - 6:02 am
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It’s a done deal, the new translation, and I should well be called to accountability by my pastoral council, my parishioners, my bishop and the pope if I didn’t start now preparing my parishioners for this change which in the scheme of things is minor! My parishioners are not children that have to be cuddled, but adults who can take it. The vacuum of leadership in terms of not only abuse, but the whining about process and how it came to be that we got this particular translation is about to make me throw up the bagel I ate for breakfast this morning. Just who are the ones in the past who balked at investigations of errant theologians, seminaries, religious orders, etc as though all of these are above canon law and Vatican II?
There’s a vacuum of leadership and bishops and priests must reclaim it within our tradition, not reconstructing our Tradition to suit one’s own fantasy life about a Utopian Church. It doesn’t exist and never will on this side of the Second Coming.
#41 by Paulus on April 15, 2010 - 4:41 am
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On the differences in style. Contrast this defense of Pope Benedict in a British newspaper
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/belief/2010/apr/15/pope-mob-benedict-misreading-abuse
with this story in NCR
http://ncronline.org/news/vatican/vatican-spokesman-says-he-doesnt-feel-under-siege
Two press officers ‘defending the Holy Father.’ It’s not that Fr Lombardi is being inappropriate or incompetent; rather the Latin way of dealing with deeply important, emotional things is different from the Anglo-Saxon one. Failure to appreciate such difference causes massive emotional miscommunication.
If we are going to take the Latin church’s liturgy out of Latin at all (and even I think there’s something of a case against), we have to take on board this kind of difference. An authentically translated liturgy will necessarily be pluralist. Liturgiam-allegedly-authenticam implies that idioms and metaphors derived from the Roman imperial court are somehow essential to authentic worship. This seems an undue imposition on those with different cultural heritages.
#42 by Paul Inwood on April 15, 2010 - 7:04 am
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this change which in the scheme of things is minor
Well, I’m pretty sure the Vatican doesn’t think it’s minor, otherwise they wouldn’t be trying to impose it. And I’m pretty sure they wouldn’t have bothered to write Liturgiam Authenticam (without ever formally abrogating Comme le Prévoît) if they didn’t see this as a significant change that they wanted made.
The fact is, what we’re talking about is interference — I think that’s not too strong a word — with the bedrock of people’s faith: the very words they use to pray, the foundation of their spirituality. The problem is that the Vatican doesn’t see it like that: it sees it as a problem of doctrinal integrity and nothing more.
We’re also talking about ugliness — the ugliness of clumsy constructions and words that do not fit easily with the way people’s minds and hearts operate. (ctd)
#43 by Paul Inwood on April 15, 2010 - 7:13 am
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(ctd) We’d never contemplate trading in our Chevy Nova (a fair analogy for what we currently have) for an ugly machine with hideous paintwork that also does nothing but lurch and judder along. We’d go for something better, more beautiful, and smoother, like a Cadillac or whatever your upmarket auto of choice happens to be.
This is 21st-century Western civilization, not the Eastern bloc at the height of repression when people gradually had to abandon their previous vehicles for the ubiqituous Trabant which looked lousy and never worked properly.
The question at issue is whether it is sensitive of the powers-that-be to want to go down this road, particularly at a time when people’s faith and spirituality are as it were under attack because of a lack of trust and confidence in those same powers-that-be.
And that in turn calls into question our own sensitivity. If we say it doesn’t matter, let’s just do it, how can we claim to be genuine pastors of our people?
#44 by Fr. Allan McDonald on April 15, 2010 - 7:19 am
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We are genuine pastors of our people when we bring them up to snuff. Sensitivity is important, but it’s not the ultimate concern. Jesus wasn’t always “sensitive!”
But on a side note, I had two Chevy Nova’s, a 1969 one and a 1970 one. I bought the 1970 one when I was 16 for $2,400 brand new! If I had kept it, took care of it, today that car could be auctioned for over $40,000! But keeping it would be an investment of reforming and renewing it as it got old. This metaphor seems to work for our Church, our leadership and our Tradition too!
#45 by Jordan Zarembo on April 15, 2010 - 10:48 am
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The humble sooty plastic Trabbi was a character (caricature?) of a doomed political ideology. The Sacramentary presumes that the Missale Romanum is a Trabant of sorts: quirky, ill-fitted technology for our modern age. Better then perhaps to re-engineer the Missal into an attractive translation for the presumed needs of moderns. Yet the clunky Missale best travels the road that stretches far beyond the modern age. The Missale contains road curves that appear anachronistic, such as endless repetitions of supplicatory words and obscure word plays (i.e. antistites for episcopus). These characteristic marks connect the Missal to the roots of Latin language and late antique prayer. Unlike the Trabbi, the Missale is a simple but venerable vehicle that uniquely suits the roadways of our heritage.
We ought not deny people a translation that remaps the ancient road of the Missale. Let’s proceed after the current storm lifts and the road is visible again.
#46 by Fr. Christopher Costigan on April 15, 2010 - 10:58 am
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I would like to compare two scenarios to put in perspective those that plan to celebrate illicit Masses once the translation is put into place (or those that would encourage their priests to do so):
1. If I were born 40 years earlier and that 1st Sunday of Advent 1969 I decided, being very pastoral of course and knowing that my people couldn’t accept change, I never bought copies of the new Missal and decreed on my own that I would celebrate only the 1962 Missal in my parish.
2. I decide, on my own of course, being the pastoral guy I am and knowing what is good for my people, that starting June 1, 2010 my parish will only celebrate Mass in the EF.
The idea behind both of these is exactly the same as anyone who thinks they will celebrate Mass in “their” parish refusing to use the same Missal that the Church uses. The difference is that those who tried 1 or 2 would be tarred and feathered by many here and the latter would praised as heroes and martyrs by the same people.
#47 by Anthony Ruff, OSB on April 15, 2010 - 11:06 am
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Fr. Christopher, I know you really want to believe that these two scenarios are “exactly the same,” but they’re not. Either one of us could list a dozen ways they’re different. Think history, culture, people’s feelings, etc., and not just external obedience to properly promulgated law. Your view is too narrow and I think you’re missing a lot.
awr
#48 by Karl Liam Saur on April 15, 2010 - 12:14 pm
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Except, Fr Anthony, that one should consider if many people will be rather deaf to those distinctions, too, and that’s also a pastoral reality that would no less need to be considered. The pastoral realities dimension of this does not neatly align to one side.
#49 by Fr. Christopher Costigan on April 15, 2010 - 1:08 pm
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Of course there are some differences between 1969 and 2011. But perhaps you can educate me on the major logical differences between the two, apart of course from the fact that many in favor of change then are resistant to change now? And of course the argument that the Mass previous to 1969 was seriously flawed, the 1969 Missal was the perfection of liturgy, and MR3 is back to being an abomination is not valid.
My basic point is that one could have argued for delaying the implementation of the 1970 MR for the exact reasons people use to delay this one. And, I would submit that it is very likely that the Church was in more of a “crisis” mode in 1969 with all the the fast-moving changes made by VII than it is today. Despite the horrors of this time period (which really can be seen generally as the actions of a previous time period revealed in the present), the Church is more stable now than in the recent past.
#50 by Ceile De on April 15, 2010 - 5:33 pm
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“But I’m right!” seems to be the only difference. But, both sides say that. Catholic laity have a right to authentic Catholic liturgy. That is the liturgy lawfully promulgated by the Catholic Church. It’s not the priest’s liturgy. It’s not the priest’s parish. We’re not there for him. His only right to be there is as a Catholic priest in communion with his bishop and the Holy See. Otherwise, no matter how prophetic or pastoral he is, he could at least have the intellectual honest of Luther and go run a store front mission.
If Episcopalians who won’t accept their church’s rulings lose the right to stay in the building, so too should Catholics who won’t accept their church’s. Or is that different too because they’re the “wrong” sort of Episcopals for some here? It gets a bit much how every change from the EF to the OF is glossed over while every change (minor in every respect in comparison) is such a tragedy. Why cannot you argue from principle at all?
#51 by Paul Inwood on April 15, 2010 - 1:32 pm
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My basic point is that one could have argued for delaying the implementation of the 1970 MR for the exact reasons people use to delay this one.
Your basic point is flawed, unfortunately. Arguing retrospectively about a completely different situation simply does not hold water.
In 1970, no one knew what we know now. We had no experience of a vernacular liturgy. Any vernacular liturgy was perceived by many as better than what had gone before. We started out along an unknown road.
Now we have had 40 years experience of it. We are better educated, and we can see the flaws in the initial translation. We know now what the road ahead ought to be. Indeed, we always knew that what we started with was not perfect, which is why it was revised, though the revision was ignored. What we want now is to improve the translation, not go backwards, which is what will happen if the current proposals are implemented. (ctd)
#52 by Karl Liam Saur on April 15, 2010 - 1:57 pm
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Actually, in 1970, we had gone through a few years learning the Mass in one vernacular translation, only to have a new one to replace it. I remember it well as a child. We joked a bit, but people dealt well. And the crisis of church authority was already well under way by then, too, as with all authority at that time – 1967-74 was far worse that today in that regard.
#53 by Fr. Christopher Costigan on April 15, 2010 - 4:23 pm
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Your response that 40 years later we are better off has it flaws as well. Sure people are better educated in the arts and sciences today than 40 years ago, but for the most part they are not better educated in the faith. We face the task now of explaining liturgical and theological principles to many who do not know what a sacrament is, don’t know how many there are, or can name any.
#54 by Paul Inwood on April 15, 2010 - 1:36 pm
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(ctd) We all know that in the revision there was an acceptable alternative which should have been used as the basis for a new translation, incorporating the principles of LA but taking into account the demands of decent literary English.
No one wants to see MR3 dropped. We just want to see it done well.
Because we now know what we did not know then is precisely why there is such an uproar. We can see what is needed and we know that this is not it.
I emphasize that my remarks are about the totality of the new Missal, not just the Order of Mass, which has far fewer problems by comparison.
#55 by Karl Liam Saur on April 15, 2010 - 2:02 pm
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“Acceptable alternative” does beg the question, of course, too.
There’s an inside game going on here over the 1998 translation, involving the resentments (on part of the conservative side) that led to its rejection and the resentments (on part of the progressive side) that followed in kind. The nursing of these resentments is understandable but is what has to be left aside. There appear to have been some significant misjudgments around the table, but it would be nice for progressives to model owning up to ours if we expect conservatives to follow suit. For example, what would it look like to seriously consider what about the 1998 translations might not reasonably be considered “acceptable” to those outside the process? Instead, we’re stuck in the “we’re the victims, Medina et al. were the bullies” mode; a mode that is perfect only for staying stuck.
#56 by Paulus on April 15, 2010 - 6:50 pm
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I was only a child at the time, but my recollection is that the 1969/70 translation was introduced very gradually, and not uniformly across the English-speaking world. The real bump came in 1964, when about half of the ordinary came into English. It was confusing till things settled down in the 1970s, and we were always fiddling around with interim texts; but, for all the comparative speed, there was a sense that we were going gently, and learning from our mistakes. In the UK, people used to say ‘and with you’, and then that was improved rhythmically by the insertion of ‘also’, which had been going in Ireland for rather longer. It was a pain, but It was necessary. It makes me speechless that we are going to have a controversial text definitively imposed on us, all in one go and without it ever having been reality-tested anywhere.
#57 by Karl Liam Saur on April 15, 2010 - 9:13 pm
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In my neck of the world (New York), it was overnight, without much prep at all. The current transition as contemplated is far grander.
#58 by Fr. Allan McDonald on April 16, 2010 - 3:57 am
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Between 1965-70 in our neck of the woods, it was gradual and spotty; some parishes kept the Tridentine Mass all the way to 1970 others were more progressive. We’ve really had two forms of the Mass ever since the “new” Mass began to be introduced and under one bishop. In Baltimore in the late 70′s some parishes still celebrated what we call the EF now. But the greatest diversity is within the OF Mass with a variety of hybrid Masses of a multitude of languages and many that are improvised. The many ways in which creative OF Masses are celebrated make them more different from each other than a straight EF compared to a straight OF. This all under one bishop in the Latin Rite. So it is really proper to say in the Latin Rite today we have one rite with thousands of interpretations, not just the OF and EF and one bishop over them all. This perhaps is the greatest novelty since Vatican II.
#59 by Robert Brown on April 18, 2010 - 9:06 am
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One other point, which often needed correction in some of my students. Properly speaking, “magisterium” and its forms refer only to the teaching office of the Church. Church governance, whether diligent or negligent (e.g., sexual scandals), has nothing to do with the Magisterium.
#60 by Lynne Gonzales on April 21, 2010 - 2:16 pm
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As a “person in the pew” I don’t see the connection between the sex scandal (actually, it’s a cover-up scandal…what did they know & what did they do about it…not much) & the bad English that’s about to be foisted on us (one year after we bought all new music books combined with the Mass parts…did they take any economic considerations under wing?)…however, they both seem to fit in the “same old, same old” category…and what category is that? The one that says the ordained know everything & the laity know nothing…except that we laity now have our own MAs & PhDs in theology…
#61 by Grace Marcello on May 19, 2010 - 12:22 pm
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Regarding the new translation. I did not grow up with the “Old Translation” I cannot relate to it so my only frame of reference is what we use now. Please don’t tell me new is better because I only know what I pray now and I like it. There are two generations of people like me
why are we being forced to like something that we never used?
#62 by Fr. Christopher Costigan on May 19, 2010 - 1:09 pm
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To use your logic:
1. There were generations forced to use something they never used in 1970.
2. There are generations now that shouldn’t be forced to use something that a previous generations “likes.”
3. Perhaps we should be “forward looking” and not keep trying to turn the clock back to 1975?